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MUA zumbaGirl's knee

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Zumbagirl, you are doing far too much.

That leg over the edge of the bed thing is too tough. Flexion stretching can be done with a rocking chair or a skateboard to help.

For extension and flexion exercises see the pix in my exercises thread.
zumbaGirl said:
the purpose of PT is for them to Push me and push through it to get it to bend.
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No it isn't. Pushing hard is counter-productive. From your posts it is causing you pain and swelling, not helping you.

You are stressing out. IMO you need to back off PT (perhaps just stop completely, just do gentle exercise at home) and relax and be self indulgent.
 
I believe they had me doing the leg hanging over the table/bed to stretch my quad along with heat on it. I am all sorts of jammed up in this leg.. However, now that I am logged in via the laptop I can browse around more and I have looked at your exercises/stretches and will be doing them. Actually, when I was at my parents, I noticed your skateboard picture and told my mom about it. She thought it was a brilliant idea and I had my dad go out to the shed and get my daughters old sponge bob skateboard lol. I sat on the deck on the swing they have and put the board under me and used that.

Stressing out is an understatement! When I called Ortho yesterday and still never got to talk to an actual doctor, nurse or PA, the receptionist kept telling me everything was normal. When I told her about PT and how I think it makes it worse because they are pushing it so hard, she replied with "well, the point is for them to push it to bend" Anyway, I haven't been since Friday and although my knee is still fired up and swells when I get up and move, it does feel like it's loosening up a tad.

My mom took my daughter last weekend when my dad was at the lake and they will take her occasionally but we lived with them for a month after surgery and everyone needed a break. So I came back to my place with my daughter and thank god she can do some things even only at 7. She will heat my rice bag up for my shoulder and quad and help me with some exercises. Now if I could get her to cook lol. I am thinking about joining the gym next to me that has a pool/sauna/hot tub. It's 10.00 a day or 48 a month and that includes the entire gym/pool membership. I'd give anything to get in the heated pool right now and just stretch, walk back and forth and feel weightless for a while.

I try to get everything I need done early and in one shot so I don't have to go out through the day. At least she is out of school now so there is less running to do. I have to do laundry today because I am out of everything. I am frustrated because I had surgery two years ago to remove 9 bone spurs, arthritis and they found the two tears. My knee never fully recovered, my ROM never came back completely and my muscles never fired right, so I am already behind the ball here. During that time I got the rest of my weight off and I can't imagine carrying around an extra 150lbs. I have since gained 10 back and can feel the inches coming back slowly and feel horrible. Everyone tells me to cut myself some slack and that I just had major surgery and I get that I really do but I refuse to gain anymore weight. I am not going to be stupid and workout and all that but I do need to make better choices with my food and possibly incorporate some ab work that I can do while on the bed and also some upper body work.. at least to save my sanity. I am a tanner and I haven't in over a month and I can feel it because it makes me feel better, crazy I know. If I could get someone to just come over and help me once in a while to do some housework etc, maybe I could settle down. Trying to get my older daughter to help me but she is so busy for me lately.

I know I typed a lot of info that most probably don't care to read, but it's who I am and what I am about right now. I am hoping to start a blog to recap what I have been through, what worked and what didn't work to maybe help someone else someday. I am sure my facebook friends are tired of hearing about it as I post everyday status updates and sometimes through the day. I have a few that follow me and check on me there and actually enjoy reading about my journey with this surgery. I thank you all for taking the time to read my posts and reply. I really do take your information all in. It's funny, well not really, but I talk about this all the time at PT and my mom and most of them look at me like I am nuts. Almost like , ya ok Bridget, you will listen to people off the internet, but you won't listen to the surgeon or the PT. Well quite honestly, this place has given me more information than anyone could ever give and although I couldn't always respond due to being on my phone, I always checked in and read updates. I am going to see what happens today at PT and this will prove one way or another what is working and not. I will also go to my appt tomorrow and talk to the PA. I am slightly annoyed that I haven't seen or talked to my surgeon since being rolled into the OR. I want some answers, I don't want to be screamed at because my knee won't bend or straighten to their liking. I want someone to listen to me because nobody has there thus far. Between my pain control issue and everyday concerns, they have just blown me to the wayside. Now I have a missing filling and need a dentist and can't get in till July 2. Trying to get an antibiotic out of someone is like a chore and a half. Anyway, thank you all for reading, if you even made it to the end of this post. I appreciate it so much and look forward to reading and learning more everyday. you are all a blessing!!!!!!
 
Hi Zumba Girl Yes i did read to the end of your post. I was a one parent family with my three boys and I know the difficulties. At the time my knees were healthy so I really dont know you manage sometimes after a major op. im coming up to eight months post op. incredibly Im still having problems with ROM. Its still at below 100. This is due to lack of supervised physio i only ever saw a physio 3times in the first six months and none since. I have now been referred to advanced physio whatever that may be at the end of June. Apart from that my life has changed so much. I can go up stairs properly. Go shopping with my daughters for four hours or more and not be sitting on a bench somewhere holding the bags. I can stand for a long time on my knee without getting those horrible pains. There is light at the end of the tunnel even tho each and everyone of us on the forum doubted that at one time or another.I really think if you get your physio sorted properly this will be the first step in your road to recovery. We are all here to listen and advise. The information acquired from this forum from people who have gone or going through it is invaluable. I sincerly hope your recovery will improve very soon. Take Care.
 
ZumbaGirl, you have a lot on your plate. I was a single mom before with very little help and it was hard and I WAS NOT recovering from a TKR which is hellish at times to say the least! I think you are doing the best you can!!

You said the following:

"Almost like , ya ok Bridget, you will listen to people off the internet, but you won't listen to the surgeon or the PT. Well quite honestly, this place has given me more information than anyone could ever give and although I couldn't always respond due to being on my phone, I always checked in and read updates."

All I can say is YES listen to the forum and not your PT. Listen to your Surgeon but then make your decisions. I have had people tell me the same thing but I believed in the forum and my gut instinct and they were right. It saved me a MUA.

I think you can do PT on your own or at least find one that operates within the forum mantra. My PT know I believe in it and he mostly follows it. Knowing what I know now I would have skipped my in home PT and did it on my own. I did not let him put his hands on my knee so he could not really hurt me or make me worse than I was.

Things will get better. Ice, elevate, and do the exercises here and you will be fine! Keep hanging in there you are doing great!
 
Update on PT yesterday.. I got there at my normal time at 830am. I was in the "I don't really want to be here mode". I could tell that they were a little upset that I had missed Monday and Tuesday but Monday I overslept with my little one and Tuesday I just was plain too upset to even go, not to mention the massive toothache I have had was flared up. Anyway, I started my session with heat on my quad to relax the muscle with my leg hanging over the table and some quad sets on the table that I have also been doing per my surgeon since day 1. Rundown of PT: Quad sets x25 Heel Slides assisted with rope type thing, pulling to a gentle stretch and holding for 10 seconds x20, Short Arch Quads using a foam roller under the knee x20, lying side leg raises x20 to strengthen hip, Hip flexes sitting on table and pulling knee/leg up like you would be marching.. after that I went to the stationary bike for 10 minutes of rocking back and forth as I can't do a full revolution. I rock to the point of a stretch and hold for five seconds. Now by the time I got off the bike I could barely walk back into the PT room. PT is held at the gym with the PT part of it having it's own section. Once back in, I did all my standing exercises which include standing on rubber discs and balancing, stepping one foot onto a step and doing a gentle stretch/lunge and last one using a band that is attached to a door that I step through and hooks around my leg/knee. I kind of lean forward and then back to strengthen the muscle in my quad. After that, I could actually walk better and felt ok. Back to the table and my therapist comes over to talk to me and starts massaging my knee and I know what's coming next.. the dreaded measurement. She works gently massaging and it's not going too bad at this point but I have this tight band feeling around the knee.. she proceeds to tell me that she is pretty sure that scar tissue has built up and I started to cry asking if I would need the MUA done and I could tell by the look on her face. She was very supportive and said it was nothing I did and that some people just heal different and scar tissue forms different in everyone. We have another man at PT that just had it done a few weeks ago. After bawling for a good 10 minutes she measures me by gently pushing my leg back and got to 98. The problem is I can get to that number but then I backslide. She didn't push it yesterday and said she would call my surgeon and let him know what she thought before my appt today. She did some ultrasound and also did this thing where they put cocoa butter on your knee/thigh and use this tool to kind of scrape it around and break up the scar tissue.. I think she's trying everything to avoid me having the MUA done. After crying and all that, I then lie on my stomach and let my knees hang off the end of table to help get my knee straight. I do that for fifteen minutes and by the time I went to turn over I could barely move. I can't win either way with that one.. so I have to alternate stretching and bending with straightening. The PA at my follow up stressed the bend and straightening and was pretty rude about the whole exercise thing and MUA that would happen if I didn't do what I was supposed to do.. One of the techs that I've become friends with came over and started rubbing my back and I started crying.. she told me it would all be ok and that she would still take me to the movies once it was all said and done.. I do love that girl lol..So now that I've gave ya the run down, I came home and iced and elevated and barely slept and now up and my knee is once again a riled mess.. I see my PA for my six week follow up this morning and hoping for some answers to the knee and also my tooth issue.. I can't wait to hear what they have to say today..
 
Hey Zumbagirl,
I wish I could say I know what you are going through, but I am 25 days out. Hang in there. You will eventually look back on this and be glad you did. What do you elevate with? I was thinking about like a wedge type thing out of foam. I think they have them at Wal-Mart. Hang in there, this too will pass. I would be lying if I said I wasn't scared, but it what it is and it's the surgery or the inability to walk. I just want my life back. Please let me know if I can do anything for you. Have you found the game place in the forum yet? I can't find it. My name is Mary.
:flwrysmile:
 
Good luck with your appointment today. Come back and update us. Hope its a good result. Take care.
 
Gosh Zumbagirl,

If I went through the same type of PT you are enduring I would cry too! I can tell you I have never had all that junk done to me in any of my 4 knee surgeries, and my ROM in both is 130! They are overdoing it, and your knee is fighting back. It's not about needing an MUA in my opinion, it's about finding a place that does PT who will listen to you! Try calling around and see what other places have to offer! One lady came hobbling in from a different PT about 2 months ago. Now she is finished w PT and exercising in the gym, and laughing and having FUN again! Imagine! Fun.... :happydance:
 
zumbaGirl said:
I then lie on my stomach and let my knees hang off the end of table to help get my knee straight. I do that for fifteen minutes and by the time I went to turn over I could barely move.
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I read the full post with utter disbelief, and picked on this bit as the worst. Fifteen seconds would be better as a stretch, and hanging off the edge of the bed like that, talk about martyrdom!

You are hugely overdoing things, all that standing and balancing and all the other nonsense. Just gentle flexion and extension stretches are all you need, and stretches lasting 15-30 seconds only.

I'd not bother to go, set up a home programme and be done with it.
 
I just had to write after reading all your messages. Am on my iPhone so can't write too much.

I just want to say ...... Please breathe for a moment....you are making decisions based on all your fearful thoughts instead of listening to your calm honest thoughts.

In the uk (in the main) we don't have surgeons and PT advocating hard PT. I went twice and only did very slight stretches. At 6 weeks I had just under 100 rom. I did very few exercises at home, I got my exercise from walking up and down stairs, a little dusting, cooking and putting the washing on. The rest of the time I say with leg up and iced all the time. I just knew my healing and bend would happen naturally. How can your healing take place when you are exercising like that and also worrying your self to death.

Your daughter will be fine and am sure she will be happy to learn how to do things around the house. Make it into a game :).

I did as little as possible to minimise the pain. Three months later I am just over 100 ROM in fact I have no idea what my ROM is most of the time because I don't measure it. I know how good it is getting because I can do more and more. Isn't that a less stressful approach :)

Time to take control, make some good decisions about PT. surround yourself with books or little enjoyable things to do and give your lovely new knee a rest.

Please don't beat yourself up because you aren't further along the road. It will happen if you relax. When anyone remarks to me that I should be completely well by now I remind them I looked after myself after 2 weeks and returned to work after 6 (which was really hard) and therefore have not been able to rest 24/7. You Are on your own with a child so you have to do a little more than others but make the decision to rest too.

Am sitting here with a lovely ice bag on my knee even now at 3.5 months ..... Just because my knee asked for it. :)

Hugs Rosie xxxxx




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RTKR. 9 March 2013
 
Please please Zumba Girl listen to the advice on here. I felt exhausted when I read yor post. It amazes me how PT differs in USA to the UK and Im almost certain we dont have as many MUAs over here. I think your knee is in shock with all that going on. I really hope you reconsider your options. Take Care.
 
Again, thank you all for taking the time to read my posts and respond. I am not sure how to quote parts of messages here so I try to get it all in when I post. Here is the latest update.. I went to my appt yesterday morning and had my x rays done. I couldn't bend my knee for the one but they did the best they could to get the picture. I ended up having to wait over an hour and a half to see the PA because he was making rounds upstairs at Joint Camp. It didn't start out to good because I was throwing a fit to the receptionist and nurse about my several not returned phone calls. The nurse in a very snotty tone, stated that she read the message late in the day and was off the day before and she had called me but no answer.. BS because I have my phone attached to my hip and no calls, no voicemails. I am not stupid by any means and I could tell she was full of it.. Anyway, I broke down with her and surprisingly she didn't make me feel like any of this was my fault. She did tell me that I am not allowed to go to the dentist yet and basically I need to just deal with the hole in my tooth till I am cleared to do so..

Now on to seeing the PA.. he comes in and asks what's going on. Cue break down number 2. I can't get my leg straight, so he asks me if when at PT if it goes straight. I said yes by the time I am done and they have worked on it it goes straight but doesn't stay that way. He then looks at my xrays and I guess all is well there but he never went over them with me. He looks at my knee and says the swelling is up a bit but normal and then gently tries to bend the knee to check the ROM. He doesn't use a tool to measure but by eyeballing it says it was about 60.. I was 98 the other day at PT but then again that was with all the mumble jumble being done to me.. Flash forward he suggests the MUA.. Cue breakdown number 3. He tells me it's nothing I did wrong but the scar tissue that is forming over my knee is creating a band and blocking the knee from bending. He said the earlier I get this done the better off I will be.. Had my surgeon been seeing patients today (Friday) I would have seen him today and had the MUA done on Monday. However he is not in today so I see my surgeon FINALLY on Tuesday after my little one gets her braces on her teeth.. Then the MUA will be Wed or Thurs of next week. I will be glad to talk to him and find out just what is going on and if this indeed will help.. I am so confused. If I do have this band of scar tissue, which is what it feels like then maybe I am doing the right thing.. They want me to continue with PT today and Monday and the day after the MUA go right back at it. I am going to talk with my surgeon when I go and ask him if all this PT is doing more harm than good like I am reading here and thinking to myself.. Just a vicious cycle I am in and had I known all this was going to happen I would have just dealt with the knee pain and never had the surgery.. they all say it will get better and I pray to god it does cause I am at my wits end here..
 
I'm not a great source of advice as I have been recovering at glacial speed but, ZumbaGirl, I think you need to take a deep breath and consider the options. You have had major invasive surgery only six weeks ago, physiotherapy that has perhaps made things worse rather than better, and you are clearly stressed and distressed.

Your knee has had barely a moment to recover from everything that has happened to it. Could you take a time-out from physiotherapy for some rest, ice and elevation, and gentle exercise, to see if things improve before making the decision (YOUR decision) on the MUA? I know the prevailing view on this forum is that it's rarely scars and adhesions preventing movement at this stage - rather, it's swelling and MUA makes that worse rather than better.

I would have sworn (and was very scared by the possibility) that I was a candidate for MUA - limited bend weeks amd weeks out from the surgery and very, very slow progress. But all the professionals here said gentle exercise, physio and patience would do it (and I discovered that my surgeon does not believe in MUAs except in very rare circumstances) and it is doing it. Slower than I wanted and with tons of frustration along the way...

I realise your circumstances aren't mine - I'm not a single parent with a young child and I had lots of support - but I think your distress may push you in direction that may not make things any better. Please be more gentle on yourself, give yourself a chance to heal, manage your pain and then decide.

Sue in windy and wet Aix en Issart (where on earth is our summer)
 
zumbaGirl ,

The Easiest decision for the PA to make in your case is the one that seems to be from a lack of listening! Did you talk to PT about what YOU want instead of the other way around?

A knee that is swollen and angry Will Not Bend! It drives me crazy when I hear of PT's, PA's etc. making the decision FOR the patient! MUA's are about scar tissue. Six weeks is about the Physical Torture that Your KNEE is rebelling against!

We have had many BoneSmarties who Told OS "NO" to MUA, and found a gentle approach to PT and it made a world of difference! MUA's only help if scar tissue is present; which at six weeks and the torture you have gone through, I would highly doubt!

Please take care of you Rest, Ice, Elevate, and take Pain Meds. Try doing "gasp" NOTHING this weekend but that and see if you don't notice a difference. :happydance:
 
Hi Zumba girl :) I can identify with everything you are saying. I also felt frustrated whe I called the surgeons office always got an answering machine and had to leave a message. One week I called on Wednesday to ask for a refill on my painkillers. She did call me back and said that she had left the message with the surgeon this was the week after my surgery.:gaah: I was told to check my pharmacy as it would be sent through to them and keep cheking if it was there well it turnedout that they were going for a long weekend and by Friday still no reply. This was now the weekend and i called the pharmacy Monday morning to check again and she said this was insane and sent the request for the medication to the hospital a doctor there filled it 4 days without. He apologized the day that the staples cameout and said needed 2 days notice just not well planned got tired calling for more and waiting. I was given 40 pills at a time and 1 or 2 every six hours tried to take one knew the hassle of having to call back and try to refill again. I went back for 6 week visit and he was not happy with the bend asked about pt which for the first 3 weeks was done in our home pt visit lasted no more then 15 minutes so discontinued.:umm: He gave me a requisition for pt at the health care centre and said that I had fallen through the cracks said to drop form off at the centre and was then told it would be a four week waiting period.I signed up for pt that we had to pay for and get reimbursed later not driving so cabs are the closest way to get there but getting to expensive. The pt I have is a bit like yours she does help me get results managed to get from 50 up to 76 in 4 visits but letting her do whatever to help this all work out.:hairpulling: It is very painful to have leg pushed back and no longer on pain medication. Just using tyleno just not working for pt. I find that I feel a bit loose when I leave her but as I walk more going home it tightens up. It feels like there is a piece of elastic is stretched across the knee and it is bouncing the knee back when stretched and the skin feels twisted. I am up for anything just want this over and when I mentioned that the doctor is going to discuss something he is going to do to my knee when I have my appointment next week she said probably more surgery she said that mua would not be good idea. :what: You are doing really well looking after your daughter and handling this to must be strong I thought I was strong to and I am lucky to have my husband taking care of me. Just want to get my independance back told need more confidence when walking but I actually have little confidence now in the surgeon and the people making me think that I am not doing as good as others at this stage. I only had an exray the day after surger and hope that he is going to take another look this is taking a while something just doesnt feel right. Keep hanging in there going to pt today and see what she says. Holly:yes!: :flwrysmile: :friends:
 
lavender,

Knee rehab varies for each patient. My first knee, I felt great in 6 weeks, and was ready for the second at 8! The right knee, started off well... Then things turned upside down. My point is to both you and zumbaGirl, everyone is different, every knee is different. This is major surgery that you have endured and your body is trying to heal! When you have aggressive PT, you get that tight band feeling from swelling internally. Been there and done that. I have been down both of your paths 4 times and to say it is easy would be crazy! :rolleyes:
 
All I can say is LISTEN really LISTEN and HEED the advice of RestAssured. She knows what she is talking about. Take an entire week off and just do your own stretches and knee slides. You will be AMAZED at the difference. Also start to read others posts about how true the mantra of no pain more gain is true. I think with rest both your mental and physical state will improve.

It is way too early to even contemplate a MUA. The only reason you have regressed is because your PT is an idiot and is having you do WAY too much for 6 weeks. It is your knee so do what you think is best but I would read up so you are informed. I would have loved to have your ROM of 98 at 6 weeks. It took me 4 months to get it and I am slowly but surely improving.
 
Hi RestAssured :kittykiss: I asked the pt today why I feel like I have a piece of elastic across me knee and she said it has scar tissue. I value your advice as you have been through this surgery. Wonder how many doctors and pt really have any idea just how much pain this surgery actually causes and how it feels to have your leg pushed so hard that you want to scream. :what: I was told today that I need to just accept the new knee and not worry about it. She is surprised that I ask so many questions I asked her why my scar is red when other people seems to have a scar that is not. She said that my scar is perfectly healthy and that it is just the way it is. I guess that maybe they don't know the answer. You are a really positive resource and have common sense. :rolleyes: I am continuing pt till my coverage runs out but I am told to massage the scar with pressure using my thumb and press down does this sound right she said it reduces scar tissue. At this point they want me to walk with a cane only no walker and I try to do this when at home not comfortable with cane only outside. I walk with a limp without the cane and she said that this can't happen it is all in my mind trying to remember to walk with bending the operated leg and sometimes get mixed up.At home I walk more with the cane and at home not as much a limp take my time more. It is nice to have you for help as you truly know what you are talking about. Your experience and compassion are a blessing to us. :flwrysmile: :flwrysmile: :thankyou: Holly
 
I am glad I am not the only one going through this.. like I have said before, I don't always respond to each individual post but I do read and take all the info I can :) I should add that I have had 8 surgeries on this knee, including that baker cyst removal that was the size of a dang tennis ball.. NONE of these surgeries have been an easy recovery. The one before this was a nightmare as well. I went to PT the day after surgery for mainly massage/and stimulation. They did try the bike but I put a stop to that real quick. I ended up leaving and doing it on my own and my knee never fully recovered from that surgery. Matter of fact, the day of my knee replacement, I still didn't have full range of motion on this knee.

I did go to PT yesterday.. so far the PA and my therapist both have said scar tissue has formed heavy over the knee. I've seen several knee replacement patients come through PT where I go. Some come in with ROM next to nothing and others above 100. Some no pain, some in severe.. again, I get that no two are alike. I knew coming into this that it wasn't going to be an easy ride. What really stinks is that my right knee is is getting worse.. snapping, grinding it's horrible..anyway, yesterday she did some massage on the back of my knee/calf which felt great. Then moved to the front and she tried to break up some scar tissue. I am not going to do too much this weekend. I feel bad cause my daughter wants to see the Monsters Movie that just came out but I don't think I can sit through the whole movie :( going to be a day of sitting in the sun and kicking back I think.

I will go to my appt Tuesday and meet with the surgeon and ask him what he thinks. Their biggest concern and this is just what I am hearing is that the longer you wait to see if an MUA will work the bigger risk in breaking a bone. I am just so lost here. If it is indeed scar tissue, then this will work.. If it's not then Ive gone through something that wasn't needed.
 
Any idea what this could be?? Call in to Ortho on call. Noticed a sharp pricking like feeling on inside of knee. Right around knee cap area but to the right of it. Had left knee done. Right where scar is but not the incision line the track mark from stitches. I can feel a little lump or ball of something and that's where the pricking stinging is. Now I'm freaked out!!! Anyone??
 
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