TKR LTKR 7 wks Swelling & Active ROM 90's<

I can only get past 90 on a good day and I've quit worrying about it. The rest, ice & elevation are critical. You might need a more gentle PT who does not obsess about measuring.
My PT does obsess with measuring. Heck he even has me obsessing with it.
It sounds like we are about the same progress in same length of time. Today is the 1st day I have omitted all exercises and didn't go to PT appointment either. I have rested, elevated and iced only. When I go to next PT appointment I am going to suggest changes. Such as no more forceful twisting and pushing on knee that causes pain. I am going to start focusing on treating my swelling only. Luckily I DO NOT have any pain with the inflammation. Good luck in your progress! Sounds like you have your recovery progress figured out and know what works for you.
 
kneeper and SusieShoes....
I agree less may be better!
 
:dancy:@IOWAGIRL58 : I don't quite have it figured out as I think with getting back to work more full time I need to carve out more rest & elevate time - and do even fewer exercises.. I hope to spend a lot more time recovering over the long holiday weekend. I love going to PT because it is social, my PT does not measure, he listens to me, and we do fun things that don't aggravate the knee (like balance and mobility exercises). It may be hard to cut back but your knee will thank you - at least that's what I'm counting on
 
I am thinking that maybe the Bonesmart approach would be better for me. As my swelling returns immediately after exercising or PT and knee gets stiff. After icing, still stiff and I have to walk a few laps around house to get the stiffness out of it. MY PT has me doing 2 of the exercises shown on this article:
the BoneSmart view on exercise
He does #2 on me at PT visits, he will bend and twist knee which hurts, I am always anxious for him to be done with it. However, he will measure my ROM before doing them and after doing them and I gain ROM afterwards. I also gain swelling and stiffness so the gained ROM is short lived.
The second exercise in that article is when your PT pushes on your knee and tries to make it bend further. That's a non-no. It will irritate and inflame your knee which, as you have found out, leads to increased swelling and pain later.
Don't allow your PT to force or manipulate your knee at all. It's bad for it. In fact, tell him "Hands off!" There's no need for a PT to touch your knee at all, except for giving it a gentle massage.
He has me currently doing one of the exercises under #8 three reps of 10 three times a day. A friend comes over and bends my knee into this position while I am lying on the floor. I do not allow it to the point of severe hurt. It only pulls and stretches with minor pain. When we starting do this exercise in week 5 post op, we were finally able to gain ROM and get to 90 degree passive ROM. I was stuck in the 80's prior to that. So it helps but I swell.
[Bonesmart.org] LTKR 7 wks Swelling & Active ROM 90's<
Stop this one, too, and don't have anyone of anything helping to increase your bend.
In fact, stop all the exercises listed in that article as bad for your knee.
I am scared to death if I stop the exercises, my knee will freeze up and I will never be able to return to normal. The surgeon is very adamant and thinks I am not doing enough. Heck he wants me to sit in a chair for an hour at at time several times a day and push my knee to bend.
No, your knee won't freeze up. It will thank you. Think about it - if you had a broken leg, would you be doing all those exercises on it so soon after the break? No.
Well your knee has suffered just as much trauma as if it had been broken - maybe even more. It's been cut, had tissues spread apart, had the ends of two large bones sawed and shaped, then had large metal objects cemented and hammered into them, before everything was put back together again.

Your surgeon was taught the wrong approach to knee recovery. He won't change, but you need to change what you are doing, so you can help your poor knee. It's overworked, upset and irritated, when all the poor thing wants to do is rest and heal itself.

It's not exercising that gets you your ROM - it's time. Time to recover, time for swelling and pain to settle, and time to heal. Your ROM is there right from the start, just waiting for all that to happen, so it can show itself.
TKR: work “smarter” and not “harder”
Knee recovery - Lose the Work Ethic!!

This is your knee and you are in charge of it - not your PT and not your surgeon. You are the only one with the right to say what will happen to it and how it will be treated. You know your own body best, so listen to it and do what feels right for your knee.
Saying no to therapy - am I allowed to?

"They just keep telling me that once the scar tissue builds up I will not be able to gain ROM." Why in the world does the surgeon scare me with that statement?
They are misinformed, wrong, and preaching an old myth that should have died long ago.

First, the sort of scar tissue they are talking about is called adhesions. They aren't just sitting there, waiting to pounce if you don't exercise enough. In fact, they are quite rare. But, you know what? Over-exercising and making your soft tissues hot and inflamed actually increases the chances of developing them.

Second, there is no deadline, no "window of opportunity" within which time you have to gain ROM, or all is lost.
Rom can continue to increase for a year, or even longer after a knee replacement. I even know of someone who discovered that her ROM had increased 3 years after her TKR.
Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR

So, I recommend that you stop all formal exercises for at lest a month and let your knee settle down. Your normal activities of daily living and just a little walking are enough exercise for now. Instead of doing exercises, spend that time resting, icing and elevating your knee, to try and reduce its swelling. As the swelling goes down, your ROM should gradually increase.

I'm going to ask Josephine, our Nurse Director, to advise you in more detail about the exercise you've listed.
 
My current regiment of exercises at home is (done in order as listed):
1) sitting in a chair and sliding my leg under the chair with assistance of other leg helping to push it. 3 x day and 3 reps of 10
2) sitting in a chair and planting my two feet side by side and then sliding forward in chair to stretch and bend knee as far as possible. Again 3 x day and 3 reps of 10
3) Lying on floor and doing the exercise pictured above. Again 3 x day and 3 reps of 10 (w/help from my friend)
4) Using a step stool, I put my surgical leg up on step and plant other foot firmly on floor and push knee forward as far as I can go to force stretch it. 3 x day and 3 reps of 10
5) Lie on bed and let leg hang over the end of the bed to stretch the knee to gain extension. Hold for 10 seconds and do 10 of them. 3 x day
None of these cause me pain to speak of but they sure cause me to swell bad and get very stiff. I use my Game Ready prior to doing them and immediately afterwards.
At PT appointments, he has me ride the NuStep bike, doing the step bending exercise and he twist and bends my knee while on my back and does above pictured one. The only one that hurts like the dickens is when he twists and turns my knee forcefully while lying on my back.
Are you thinking I shouldn't be doing any of these?????
I am scared to death if I stop the exercises, my knee will freeze up and I will never be able to return to normal. The surgeon is very adamant and thinks I am not doing enough. Heck he wants me to sit in a chair for an hour at at time several times a day and push my knee to bend. I tried it once and swelled so bad it was unreal. Never again.
Help!!!
My PT does not do massages.. He does push to manipulate and holds it there for a few seconds which hurts. If he does not do that and I eliminate the steps where I push as hard as I can to stretch and bend the knee, then I basically would only be doing the NuStep bicycle there and maybe the strengthening one where I push my body weight up with the just the surgical knee while lying and stretching for extension.

@Josephine , please will you help IOWAGIRL58 with your comments about her detailed exercise list and what happens at PT?
 
kneeper and SusieShoes....
I agree less may be better!

Please do not let anyone bend your knee. I am six weeks out from a left knee replacement. My surgeon said I should do gentle bending exercises-heel slides in bed or sitting on the edge of a chair, and otherwise I should have my leg elevated with ice on, unless I was using the CPM machine. I had a visit PT for four weeks,

The surgeons instructions were that instructions I should walk just to use the restroom or have a snack, but not to worry about walking around for exercise or improving my gait. His emphasis was avoiding swelling and reaching 120 flexion. I did that by four and a half weeks, and am now at 130. Once I reached 120 I began walking for exercise. Even if I swell from walking, I don't lose the flexion now. I am going to PT twice a week, mostly for massage. I have a few simple exercises that I do once a day. You really don't need to push yourself so hard. Josephine and Celle are giving you good advice.
 
My comments in bold
1) sitting in a chair and sliding my leg under the chair with assistance of other leg helping to push it. 3 x day and 3 reps of 10 - otherwise known as heel slides which are an extremely easy exercise to do badly - and this is badly! Read this Heel slides and how to do them properly.
2) sitting in a chair and planting my two feet side by side and then sliding forward in chair to stretch and bend knee as far as possible. Again 3 x day and 3 reps of 10 - you're already doing one flexion exercise. That's more than enough!
3) Lying on floor and doing the exercise pictured above. Again 3 x day and 3 reps of 10 (w/help from my friend) - same comment as above
4) Using a step stool, I put my surgical leg up on step and plant other foot firmly on floor and push knee forward as far as I can go to force stretch it. 3 x day and 3 reps of 10 - same comment again
5) Lie on bed and let leg hang over the end of the bed to stretch the knee to gain extension. Hold for 10 seconds and do 10 of them. 3 x day - not a very good idea


At PT appointments, he has me ride the NuStep bike, doing the step bending exercise and he twist and bends my knee while on my back and does above pictured one. The only one that hurts like the dickens is when he twists and turns my knee forcefully while lying on my back.
Are you thinking I shouldn't be doing any of these?????
Yes I do - stop them immediately
I am scared to death if I stop the exercises, my knee will freeze up and I will never be able to return to normal.
As others have said, this is a false scare tactic. If you DON'T stop the exercises, it's more likely the swelling and pain will become chronic.
The surgeon is very adamant and thinks I am not doing enough.
Ignore him! It's your knee, you have a perfect right to say what you do and don't want to do. Read this Saying no to therapy - am I allowed to?.
They just keep telling me that once the scar tissue builds up I will not be able to gain ROM." Why in the world does the surgeon scare me with that statement?
Well they like to impose their will on their patients. For another, they are scared stiff that if they don't 'motivate' them, their patients will just be couch potatoes and then sue them for a poor outcome.

However, their approach is totally wrong as too much of anything can achieve that end very, very effectively. Plus they never seem to get the simple truth that it's not the exercising that gets you your ROM, it's time. Time to recover, time for swelling and pain to settle and time to heal.

One thing that seems to be missing from all their protocols (PT's and surgeons) is that all your ROM is there right from the start, just waiting for all that to happen so it can show itself. In the general run of things, it doesn't need to be fought for, worked hard for or worried about. It will happen. Exercise as in strength training is counter-productive and in the early weeks does more harm than good. Normal activity is the key to success.

I'd like to ask you some more questions if you don't mind.

It would be very helpful if you would answer each one individually - numbered as I have done - in as much detail as you can then I'll come back as see where you are ....

1. what are your pain levels right now? (remember the 1-10 scale: 1 = no pain and 10 = the worst you can imagine)
Include other forms of pain such as soreness, burning, stabbing, throbbing, aching, swelling and stiffness


2. what pain medications have you been prescribed, how much are you taking (in mg please) and how often?

4. what is your ROM - that's flexion (bend) and extension (straightness)

5. are you icing your knee at all? If so, how often and for how long?

6. are you elevating your leg. If so how often and for how long?

7. what is your activity level other than exercises? What do you do in the way of housework, cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc.


8 weeks
 
I am fortunate that I am retired so do not have the worry of returning to work. That has to be stressful for you to find the balance between work and recovery. I am so stressing over cutting back and losing what I have gained. With today being the very 1st day I did no exercises, I am in fear I lost ROM.

I wish you the best on returning to work full time and hope you have help at home so you can rest and elevate when not working and let someone else do the cooking and housework.

I live alone and if it wasn't for my best friends helping me, I would never have been able to do the surgery.
 
Thanks Celle so much for taking the time to give me so much advice. That is very kind of you to help me. As you can tell, I am stressing with the surgeon scaring me with his beliefs on ROM. I will look for Josephine to advise me on exercises I am doing. I need to figure out what my plan is this weekend before I return to PT on Monday. Today I just did the RICE method and no exercises. Thanks again.
 
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Please do not let anyone bend your knee.
Does this include me bending it by forcing it forward on the step exercise? Should I not do that?

I am going to request he stops manipulating it as it does not benefit me in the end and does cause it to get severely swollen and stiff. People talk about massaging but my therapist doesn't do massages and I asked him about it and he said he didn't think it would help me.

Wow you are doing amazing to get 120 flexion at less than 5 weeks. Congrats! I am praying I can get to 110 flexion. My therapist told me yesterday when I inquired that I may never get there. He is puzzled by my swelling as he says most clients the swelling is gone by week 5 and I am almost at 8 weeks. I don't see it changing anytime soon.
 
1. pain levels No pain only swelling and stiffness so I would say "1".

2. pain medications I no longer am taking any prescription pain medications. Quit them a couple weeks ago. I only take Tylenol for achyness in the backside of my knee and calves. Achyness in backside of knee caused from hanging it over the end of the bed and stretching it.

4. ROM is 93 flexion and 7 extension.

5. icing - I have a Game Ready Cold Therapy Machine and I use it 5 or 6 times a day for 15 minutes if using the compression & cold therapy both; and for 30 minutes if not using the compression and only using the cold therapy.

6. elevating I spend most all of the day (when not doing exercises) in my recliner with it elevated. So several hours for long periods.

7. activity level
On occasion, I go to grocery store but take a friend to help get what I need so I am only on my legs and walking about 15 minutes at the store.
I live alone so I do my own cooking but I do easy meals so not on my feet for long or if a friend is over, she will do the cooking so I don't have to.
I don't do any shopping to speak of.
I don't do any housework as I hire it done.
I do my own laundry.


I walk a few laps around the house or in the yard briefly a few times a day. No long walks.
All in all, my activity level is low EXCEPT for the exercises I have been religiously doing and that is where my activity level comes in to play as doing them 3 times a day is about 1 hour of exercising.
PT is 3 times a week for one hour each visit.
 
Does this include me bending it by forcing it forward on the step exercise? Should I not do that.
I am going to request he stops manipulating it as it does not benefit me in the end and does cause it to get severely swollen and stiff.
Don't force your knee to do anything. Just bend it using your own leg muscles. No help from your hands or your other foot.

Don't request your PT to stop manipulating your knee - tell him. You're the boss.
Whether you pay him directly or through your insurance, you are paying him for his services, so you are in charge. You don't have to please him - he has to please you.
He has to do what you want him to do, and no more. If he tries to do anything against your wishes, legally he will be assaulting you.

Also, you don't have to explain your stance or your reasons. He will try to argue, but don't get involved in trying to justify your position. Just say something like "That is my decision. Please abide by it. If you can't, we will have to part company."

I know it's hard, but honestly, you don't need his type of PT.

I did no PT at all after my last knee replacement, and only went to three PT sessions in all after the previous one. Both my knees are strong and reliable. They straighten fully and bend to somewhere between 125 and 130 degrees.
 
Good morning @IOWAGIRL58

Hang in there - and try to follow Josephine and others' suggestions. I did not lose ground when I cut back - in fact I was able to get a little more flexion, particularly on my heel slides as I wasn't so swollen - I expect my numbers are similar to yours but I really don't know as i quit measuring. I find that walking, focusing on my gait, does as much for stretching as a lot of the exercises I had been doing. It was really hard for me to let go of the worry - not sure I'm totally there but much better than a couple of weeks ago. Have a good day!:flwrysmile:
 
No pain only swelling and stiffness so I would say "1".
Did you now read the question properly? Stiffness and swelling are manifestations of pain so they should be taken into account when you consider your pain score. Given what you have said, I would suggest your pain score is nearer a 6 or 7
I no longer am taking any prescription pain medications. Quit them a couple weeks ago. I only take Tylenol for achyness in the backside of my knee and calves. Achyness in backside of knee caused from hanging it over the end of the bed and stretching it.
I did ask how much Tylenol you were taking and how often?
ROM is 93 flexion and 7 extension.
Yep, that tells me you have excessive swelling and stiffness which is a form of pain.
5 or 6 times a day for 15 minutes if

Icing for 30 minutes if not using the compression and only using the cold therapy.
You accomplish little or nothing in 30 minutes. Ice for at least 40-60mins and more than 4 times a day. Or better yet, ice when you are elevating.
On occasion, I go to grocery store but take a friend to help get what I need so I am only on my legs and walking about 15 minutes at the store.
I live alone so I do my own cooking but I do easy meals so not on my feet for long or if a friend is over, she will do the cooking so I don't have to.
I don't do any shopping to speak of.
I don't do any housework as I hire it done.
I do my own laundry.
Okay
I spend most all of the day (when not doing exercises) in my recliner with it elevated. So several hours for long periods.
You do need to do some walking about the house. It's not good for you to be so inactive. But a 5-10 minute walk about the house ever hour or two would be fine.
I walk a few laps around the house or in the yard briefly a few times a day. No long walks.
All in all, my activity level is low EXCEPT for the exercises I have been religiously doing and that is where my activity level comes in to play as doing them 3 times a day is about 1 hour of exercising.
PT is 3 times a week for one hour each visit.
Define 'a few times'.
I take it you read my former post about your exercises? If not, please do back and read it again. I suggested you STOP doing all of them and just do the little walks about the house instead.

You said you were 'I am scared to death if I stop the exercises, my knee will freeze up and I will never be able to return to normal' but you have that backwards. So far your exercising has caused your knee to be swollen and stiff, you would agree with that, I trust? So, if you continue with this, then you most certainly DO run the risk of if never returning to normal. Trust me, I've seen it happen to loads of people. There have also been loads of members here that were in danger of having a chronically stiff leg. So I am advising you again, to STOP all the exercising, make sure you do have a fair degree of activity as I've described before, 5-10 minute walks about the house every hour of so.

I also suggest you take Tylneol 1,000mg 4 times a day. That should help you feel better.
 
I have now stopped all exercises as you suggested except for heel slides every couple hours and I do ankle pumps or foot rotations when in recliner. I totally agree with what you are saying. I blame the excessive exercising for my severe and persistent swelling. I am now understanding the philopsphy that "less is more".

I am also stopping physical therapy. I may consider resuming it for strengthening exercises in the future but only after all my swelling and stiffness are resolved.

Tylenol I am taking 4 times a day but only 500mg so will increase that to 1000mg 4 times a day. Sorry forgot to state dosage in response initially.

Taking into consideration of my swelling and stiffness, I would agree on a level of 7.

I will start doing more walking and be a little more active.

I also will increase ice time. Not an issue to do that as it feels good to me and I like getting the warmth out of my knee.

Thanks so much for your suggestions. I wish I would have found this site sooner as it is very helpful and grateful it is here for us TKR patients to learn on how to improve our recovery. I will let you know how I progress. Thanks again.
 
I'm glad you're going to give the "no exercises and more icing and elevating" a try.
We'll be here to mentally hold your hand and to wish you well.
 
I did the bending on the step exercise with my PT, no more than four reps, and stopping when it hurt, or before if I could do it just til discomfort. Sometimes I stopped after two or three reps.
 
I should also say that I didn't really "do" anything to get the increased flexion. In fact it was because I did very little. I read advice here when I had my hip replaced four years ago, so I started reading again when I knew I was having a TKR. The advice on BoneSmart was very similar to my surgeon's advice, except he had me use the annoying CPM machine. Avoiding swelling to enable flexion seemed logical to me. You can't bend it you are swollen.

Try not to worry. Rest and ice. In a few weeks you will be much better.
 
I'm glad you're going to give the "no exercises and more icing and elevating" a try.
We'll be here to mentally hold your hand and to wish you well.
Thanks as I will probably be needing all the support I can get. I have a long road to travel in this recovery process. I pray the "no exercises and more icing and elevating" approach works for me!!! I like having this forum as it is very helpful plus encouraging to know that I am not alone on the journey.
 

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