BoneSmart® Hip / Knee Replacement Forum
Joint Replacement Patient Advocacy
and Online Community

[REVISION TKR] HELP - 16 months out and in pain<

Discussion in 'Knee Replacement Recovery Area' started by Scheherazade, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    Thank you! I hadn't seen anyone mention this (about damaged cartilage behind the patella causing pain) before.
     
  2. Jamie

    Jamie ADMINISTRATOR Administrator

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Age:
    70
    Messages:
    52,289
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Kansas
    Country:
    United States United States
    Boy, shredded cartilage not related to your pain? I'm finding it hard to believe that assessment! It does sound like you're going to need patellar buttons, though.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    Revision scheduled for June 8. The revision OS will be operating first on the right knee, which is the most painful (almost akin to having broken glass in my knee, at times). He will first check to make sure the replacements are in tight - which tests show they were . If they are not tight, he will replace that. Otherwise he will simply replace the spacer and resurface patella. Then, unless the total revision is necessary, he will replace the spacer and resurface the patella on the left side.

    Assuming I don't need to have the whole replacement replaced, any thoughts on length of recovery? This doctor, unlike the first time, was very reluctant to say how long the recovery would take, saying "yes, it could take two months and yes, it could take 10 months."

    I'm really hoping :beg: this does the trick as my world and functioning has been dramatically reduced over the past 8 months.
     
  4. KarriB

    KarriB FORUM ADVISOR Forum Advisor

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Age:
    62
    Messages:
    11,720
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Country:
    United States United States
    Is the OS thinking the spacer has cracked? It happened to @Celle with her partial.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Pumpkln

    Pumpkln FORUM ADVISOR Forum Advisor

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Age:
    68
    Messages:
    19,254
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States, West
    Country:
    United States United States
    Glad to hear your revision is scheduled. Generally when the knee is right, you should feel better. How long recovery will take is anyones guess. Many (not all) members have had easier recoveries after the knees were done right.

    Keep us posted on how you are doing.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    He wouldn't speculate, but kept saying he'd know once he's in. Makes sense. I remember reading @Celle 's horrible experience - I don't remember any critical moment or impact when my right knee began changing from pretty fine to increasingly awful, so I just don't know what to think about why this has happened.

    The left knee, which is less horrible than the right (although it was the real reason I originally went to an OS about having a replacement), periodically gets quite swollen and I have painful Baker's cysts, but it's not nearly as painful as the right knee which hurts with just about every step.
     
  7. Celle

    Celle FORUM ADVISOR Forum Advisor

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Age:
    77
    Messages:
    29,488
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Country:
    New Zealand New Zealand
    It may be that the spacer isn't cracked, but is simply a size too large or too small. The wrong size spacer can cause instability and pain in a TKR.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    I'm now post bilateral revision surgery. Can an administrator please change my designation (i.e. Revision, not BTKR)?
     
  9. skigirl

    skigirl SUPER MODERATOR Moderator

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2009
    Age:
    74
    Messages:
    13,109
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Country:
    United States United States
    We don't have a bilateral revision button, I will let Jo know that we need one!! But, I thought the revision label was better for you right now. I assume by the fact that the doc did both knees that you did not need a full revision. I had a spacer change and a lysis of adhesions (removal of scar tissue---adhesions). I had pain for about a week, then after that, I had to deal with the swelling.

    Also, my doc urged me not to exercise on a hot, inflamed knee. So recovery was very slow--for the first three weeks I spent a lot of time on the couch with my knee up on three pillows. I did only table exercises---quad sets, leg lifts. At 4 weeks, I began a series of gentle exercises which were increased very slowly. I did a lot of n on weight bearing exercises like biking. At 8 weeks, I began a real exercise program. I have not had any more problems with my knee--so far!!
     
  10. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    Thank you Kelly.

    The OS replaced the spacers and resurfaced the patellas. He said he had to try three different spacers, going up 3 mms, in order for the tendons to be in place properly. He explained to my husband (during surgery, in between the first knee and second knee) that the tendons were too loose because the spacers were too small, and that had caused instability. Does that make sense to others? Should/could the first surgeon have realized the spacers were too thin?

    I feel as though I am still recovering from this surgery, so I have no way of knowing yet whether this time did the trick and I'll be soon nearing that blissful state of "being unaware of my knees" for which I so fervently yearn. But the recovery is certainly quicker than from the BTKR. I'm already not using either walker or cane. I still need to rest a lot, though, and am certainly following the BoneSmart mantra of not overdoing exercises, just heel slides and knee lifts so far.
     
  11. skigirl

    skigirl SUPER MODERATOR Moderator

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2009
    Age:
    74
    Messages:
    13,109
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Country:
    United States United States
    Yes, it does make sense that the too small spacers created instability and pain in your knees.

    Picking a spacer size is tricky. My own doctor admitted that he had put too small a spacer in my knee. He said that if he had known how limber I am, he would have put in a bigger spacer. (Makes you wonder why he does not ask a few questions, doesn't it!) My knee felt so much more stable the first time that I got up, I was surprised.

    I thiink that now that your ligaments are balanced that you have a fairly swift recovery. It is good that you are resting---I was on the couch for about 3 weeks. I read a TON of books and watched Downton Abbey al the way through!! Take it easy now, I think you will be happy with this recovery and a start to a new life.
     
  12. Celle

    Celle FORUM ADVISOR Forum Advisor

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Age:
    77
    Messages:
    29,488
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Country:
    New Zealand New Zealand
    I'm glad your revisions went well, @Scheherazade .
    Here is your post op reading, as a reminder:
    Knee Recovery: The Guidelines
    1. Don’t worry: Your body will heal all by itself. Relax, let it, don't try and hurry it, don’t worry about any symptoms now; they are almost certainly temporary
    2. Control discomfort:
    rest
    elevate
    ice
    take your pain meds by prescription schedule (not when pain starts!)
    don't overwork.
    3. Do what you want to do BUT
    a. If it hurts, don't do it and don't allow anyone - especially a physical therapist - to do it to you
    b. If your leg swells more or gets stiffer in the 24 hours after doing it, don't do it again.​
    4. PT or exercise can be useful BUT take note of these
    5. Here is a week-by-week guide for Activity progression for TKRs


    The Recovery articles:
    The importance of managing pain after a TKR and the pain chart
    Swollen and stiff knee: what causes it?

    Energy drain for TKRs
    Elevation is the key

    Ice to control pain and swelling
    Heel slides and how to do them properly

    Chart representation of TKR recovery
    Healing: how long does it take?

    Post op blues is a reality - be prepared for it
    Sleep deprivation is pretty much inevitable - but what causes it?

    There are also some cautionary articles here
    Myth busting: no pain, no gain
    Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
    Myth busting: on getting addicted to pain meds

    We try to keep the forum a positive and safe place for our members to talk about their questions or concerns and to report successes with their joint replacement surgery. While members may create as many threads as they like in a majority of BoneSmart's forums, we ask that each member have only one recovery thread. This policy makes it easier to go back and review history before providing advice.
     
  13. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    Saw the OS for my 5 week post-op check-up. This time the explanation was clearer - my tendons loosened after the initial surgery, not that the spacers were too small to begin with. The doctor said there really wasn't any clear consensus on why, in a very small percentage of people and not only with knee replacement surgery, tendons surrounding a particular surgical site loosen. I hope this doesn't mean it is going to happen again, but at least I didn't have to have the extender rods for the revision and there is no reason to think I evernwill.

    Five weeks out and no walker, no cane, lots of short walks (inside the house and around the outside) and I'm doing well. I am able to bend to 110 degrees on the right and 105 on the left. Not bad.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    so here I am, 10 months after my bilateral revision and 2 years and 6 months after my BTKR and I'm practically back where I started.:bawl: After each surgery I had a few months following the initial recovery periods of fairly decent relief, and then an increasing descent back into horrible knee pain. At least this time one knee is better than the other, but the one feels as bad as before the initial surgery and I'm back to extreme limitations on what I can do. I am pretty sure the same thing has happened this time as did after the first surgery - loosened tendons surrounding the knee cavity, making it completely unstable. Has anyone else had this problem, or know of anyone who has? I really, really need help :beg:in figuring out what to do/where to go next.
     
  15. BusterBeans

    BusterBeans senior

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Age:
    66
    Messages:
    324
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Florida
    Country:
    United States United States
    I’m so sorry to hear this my old BTKR buddy. I’ve never heard of loosened tendons and can only wish you the best. I had horrendous IT band problems with my BTKR but again never heard of tendon issues.

    I’m still on my journey as well but the end of the tunnel is close at hand. I have continued to have tremendous pain below my patella on both knees. I had a LTHR 18 months ago that relieved all the pain in the left knee. When I then asked to have the right hip done, my OS said I still had several years left on it. Even though I was hobbling in pain. My husband and I moved to Florida where I saw a new OS who said I needed a knee revision and sent me to a revision specialist in Orlando. After MRI’s didn’t find loose components or infections, he gave me a hip injection at a weird spot and the knee pain vanished...for 3 weeks. Referred pain from a bad hip. So he will be doing an anterior THR the end of May.

    Wish you could find something as easy as a THR. I’m assuming you’ve gone for a second opinion?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. skigirl

    skigirl SUPER MODERATOR Moderator

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2009
    Age:
    74
    Messages:
    13,109
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Country:
    United States United States
    I will tag @Josephine for you to see if she can offer some more serious advice.
     
  17. Josephine

    Josephine FORUM ADMIN, NURSE DIRECTOR Administrator

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Age:
    77
    Messages:
    80,893
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    The North
    Country:
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Oh my - that sounds horrible!

    I'd really like to offer you some structured advice but in order to do that, I also need to ask you some questions. Are you willing for me to do that?
     
  18. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    @Josephine -yes; of course!

    @BusterBeans - I am going for another opinion tomorrow. My former OS did say it was possibly referred pain from my hip which showed some deterioration two years ago, but when he did an x-ray last week he said it didn't show any further deterioration, but did schedule me for a needle-guided novocaine shot in the hip to see if that is the problem. I don't think it is the case as the pain feels exactly as it did before my revision and the insertion of thicker spacers, but we'll see what happens next, and I'm waiting for Josephine's questions and thoughts.
     
  19. Josephine

    Josephine FORUM ADMIN, NURSE DIRECTOR Administrator

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Age:
    77
    Messages:
    80,893
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    The North
    Country:
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Here y'go then!

    It would be very helpful if you would answer each one individually - numbered as I have done - in as much detail as you can then I'll come back as see where you are ....

    1. what are your pain levels right now? (remember the 1-10 scale: 1 = no pain and 10 = the worst you can imagine. And don't forget to factor in other forms of pain such as soreness, burning, stabbing, throbbing, aching, swelling and stiffness).

    2. what pain medications have you been prescribed, how much are you taking (in mg please) and how often?

    3. how swollen is your leg compared to these?
    ai63.tinypic.com_eta39s.jpg

    4. what is your ROM - that's flexion (bend) and extension (straightness)

    5. are you icing your knee at all? If so, how often and for how long?

    6. are you elevating your leg. If so how often and for how long?

    7. what is your activity level? What do you do in the way of housework, cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc., and

    8. are you doing any exercises at home? If so what and how often?
    This is the most crucial question so please help me by using the format I have left as an example
    (which means please make a list and not an essay!)

    Exercises done at home
    - how many sessions you do each day
    - enter exercise by name then number of repetitions of each
    etc., etc.

    Anything done at PT
    - how many times a week
    - enter exercise by name then number of repetitions of each
    etc., etc.
     
  20. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade member
    Thread Starter

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Age:
    60
    Messages:
    132
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Country:
    United States United States
    1. when walking on stairs or getting up or down from a seat, 7; otherwise a 4.

    2. I don't take pain medications but have been taking 1000 mg naproxyn daily for the past 4 years.

    3. swelling is between slight and moderate.

    4. My extension is 0, my ROM is about 110 (the OS did not measure it and I can't find my goniometer).

    5. I don't ice my knees as they have become quite sensitive to cold.

    6. I elevate every night and when seated for more than 20 minutes.

    7. For me, my activity level is very restricted. Although I can go shopping and do light housework, I can no longer do laundry (because of the stairs) and am very restricted in terms of going anywhere where I need to be ambulatory (or upright) for more than an hour.

    8. I am not doing any exercises.
     

Share This Page

Sponsors
Close X