It sounds like you're on the right track. Keep up with some gentle heel slides and stretches, walking for a few minutes but mostly icing and elevating. You're right to keep using the walker until you're more stable.
TKR This has been the worst, most painful, most careless surgery ever
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Satsu
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I need help, please. I went to my first PT appointment this past Tuesday. The therapist measured the flexion in my knee and said it was at 60 degrees and should be at least at 90. Then he told me that I only have a 3 month window to get my flexion back, or my leg will be stuck as it is, permanently. He then proceeded to bend my leg and try to slowly force the 90 degrees. After the 4th time, I started vomiting. We had to cut the session short. Since that appointment, I have been really stressed out about movement in my knee. I'm worried and don't know how to get more motion - the way he did it, my leg has been in really bad pain since the appointment. Has anyone seen anyone seen anything online, like a video or something, that can help me get more motion in my knee? Really stressed out.
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@Satsu,
The PT is wrong there is no window of opportunity, and by pushing on you knee they have set you back.
Here are three articles for you to read about ROM, it is never too late, and there is NO window of opportunity.
Pushing, shoving, pulling, forcing your knee to bend is only going to inflame the tissues, increase swelling, increase pain, and set your recovery back, gentle heel slides are all you need to do. Pushing to the point of vomiting tells me this PT has no boundries nor the ability to set limits, find someone else and Tell the PT to STOP!
ROM: it's worth the wait for ROM
ROM: it's never too late to get more ROM!
ROM (range of motion) information
Five “P’s” of knee recovery
The PT is wrong there is no window of opportunity, and by pushing on you knee they have set you back.
Here are three articles for you to read about ROM, it is never too late, and there is NO window of opportunity.
Pushing, shoving, pulling, forcing your knee to bend is only going to inflame the tissues, increase swelling, increase pain, and set your recovery back, gentle heel slides are all you need to do. Pushing to the point of vomiting tells me this PT has no boundries nor the ability to set limits, find someone else and Tell the PT to STOP!
ROM: it's worth the wait for ROM
ROM: it's never too late to get more ROM!
ROM (range of motion) information
Five “P’s” of knee recovery
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Here are the recovery articles for you to read:
First are the BoneSmart mantras ....
- rest, elevate, ice and take your pain meds by the clock
- if it hurts, don't do it and don't allow anyone - especially a physiotherapist - to do it to you
- if your leg swells more or gets stiffer in the 24 hours after doing it, don't do it again
- if you won't die if it's not done, don't do it
- never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lie down, never stay awake when you can go to sleep!
- be active as much as you need to be but not more than is necessary, meaning so much that you end up being in pain, exhausted or desperate to sit down or lay down!
Next is a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) thread.
And here are some very crucial articles
The importance of managing pain after a TKR and the pain chart
Myth busting: no pain, no gain
Swollen and stiff knee: what causes it?
Activity progression for TKRs
Healing: how long does it take?
Chart representation of TKR recovery
Energy drain for TKRs
Elevation is the key
Ice to control pain and swelling
Home physio (PT) and activity progress: suggestions
Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
Myth busting: on getting addicted to pain meds
Post op blues is a reality - be prepared for it
Sleep deprivation is pretty much inevitable - but what causes it?
And finally some wise words from members who have shared their experiences ...
Where are you in recovery?? (TKR)
Five “P’s” of knee recovery
TKR: work “smarter” and not “harder”
Recovering a knee - from one who knows!
It's never too late to get more ROM!
It's worth the wait for ROM
First are the BoneSmart mantras ....
- rest, elevate, ice and take your pain meds by the clock
- if it hurts, don't do it and don't allow anyone - especially a physiotherapist - to do it to you
- if your leg swells more or gets stiffer in the 24 hours after doing it, don't do it again
- if you won't die if it's not done, don't do it
- never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lie down, never stay awake when you can go to sleep!
- be active as much as you need to be but not more than is necessary, meaning so much that you end up being in pain, exhausted or desperate to sit down or lay down!
Next is a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) thread.
And here are some very crucial articles
The importance of managing pain after a TKR and the pain chart
Myth busting: no pain, no gain
Swollen and stiff knee: what causes it?
Activity progression for TKRs
Healing: how long does it take?
Chart representation of TKR recovery
Energy drain for TKRs
Elevation is the key
Ice to control pain and swelling
Home physio (PT) and activity progress: suggestions
Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
Myth busting: on getting addicted to pain meds
Post op blues is a reality - be prepared for it
Sleep deprivation is pretty much inevitable - but what causes it?
And finally some wise words from members who have shared their experiences ...
Where are you in recovery?? (TKR)
Five “P’s” of knee recovery
TKR: work “smarter” and not “harder”
Recovering a knee - from one who knows!
It's never too late to get more ROM!
It's worth the wait for ROM
Jane B.
graduate
OMG, Satsu! Tell them to back away or you'll whack them with your cane/walker/crutch! Don't let them hurt you, ever.
My at home PT was great. When I began outpatient PT, I sat my PT down before we did anything, and talked to her about what my individual issues were. I then told her that I needed to trust her and that I did not want her pushing or pulling on my knee. Not to the point of pain.
We are going to have discomfort, but the kind of pain that will have you vomiting is beyond any kind of common sense.
My at home PT was great. When I began outpatient PT, I sat my PT down before we did anything, and talked to her about what my individual issues were. I then told her that I needed to trust her and that I did not want her pushing or pulling on my knee. Not to the point of pain.
We are going to have discomfort, but the kind of pain that will have you vomiting is beyond any kind of common sense.
appaloosa girl
senior
Hi @Satsu
They had no business putting you in that much pain. Flection and extension comes slowly for some of us. It isn't the race that some therapists scare us into thinking or fearing.
I think right now you need to rest your knee due to the stress they put it through. While resting read all the info Pumpkin sent you. Relax!! No more panic!! It's going to be ok. After you have rested the knee for a couple days you can start your home exercising and go back to pt. be firm with them about not putting you in that pain. If they won't listen leave, go home and find another therapist. No more of what you went through!!
Good luck!! Keep us posted.
Dana
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They had no business putting you in that much pain. Flection and extension comes slowly for some of us. It isn't the race that some therapists scare us into thinking or fearing.
I think right now you need to rest your knee due to the stress they put it through. While resting read all the info Pumpkin sent you. Relax!! No more panic!! It's going to be ok. After you have rested the knee for a couple days you can start your home exercising and go back to pt. be firm with them about not putting you in that pain. If they won't listen leave, go home and find another therapist. No more of what you went through!!
Good luck!! Keep us posted.
Dana
Sent from my iPhone using BoneSmart Forum
kneegone
junior member
@Satsu
Hi, Satsu, it sounds like you're having a really horrendous time. Don't worry about the drugs and overdosing. I take hydromorphone (Dilaudid) and initially the bottle said 12 tablets max a day. Each pill was 2 mg. and I was taking 3 (6 mgs) every 3 hours for the first week. The bottle said 1-4 pills every 3-4 hours. So easily I went over 12 tablets including the nights. Fortunately, sometimes at night, I would go 5 hours before the pain woke me up.
For my second refill of hydromorphone, the dr. changed the instructions to 1-3 pills every 4-6 hrs. So now I take 3 pills every 6 hours most of the time and I supplement with Tylenol. Sometimes, I will try to take only 2 pills to see if I can wean off of it. But last night,I had such stinging nerve pain, that I took a total of 11 pills @ 2mgs each for the day. Anyway, I was told by the nurse that I won't get addicted unless I was at month 3 and fully dependent on the drugs. Hope this helps. I also keep a daily log of all the pills I take and times. Sometimes when you're drugged out, you don't remember the last time you took the pills. Also,make sure you're taking your stool softeners cause these pills are constipating!
Lastly, the people on this forum are truly kind and helpful and didn't mean to scold or berate you. They are all contributing out of the kindness of their hearts and I've found them to be comforting and informative. Best wishes for your speedy recovery. We can all relate!
Hi, Satsu, it sounds like you're having a really horrendous time. Don't worry about the drugs and overdosing. I take hydromorphone (Dilaudid) and initially the bottle said 12 tablets max a day. Each pill was 2 mg. and I was taking 3 (6 mgs) every 3 hours for the first week. The bottle said 1-4 pills every 3-4 hours. So easily I went over 12 tablets including the nights. Fortunately, sometimes at night, I would go 5 hours before the pain woke me up.
For my second refill of hydromorphone, the dr. changed the instructions to 1-3 pills every 4-6 hrs. So now I take 3 pills every 6 hours most of the time and I supplement with Tylenol. Sometimes, I will try to take only 2 pills to see if I can wean off of it. But last night,I had such stinging nerve pain, that I took a total of 11 pills @ 2mgs each for the day. Anyway, I was told by the nurse that I won't get addicted unless I was at month 3 and fully dependent on the drugs. Hope this helps. I also keep a daily log of all the pills I take and times. Sometimes when you're drugged out, you don't remember the last time you took the pills. Also,make sure you're taking your stool softeners cause these pills are constipating!
Lastly, the people on this forum are truly kind and helpful and didn't mean to scold or berate you. They are all contributing out of the kindness of their hearts and I've found them to be comforting and informative. Best wishes for your speedy recovery. We can all relate!
Satsu.....these folks are right and your therapist is not helping you with this approach. There definitely is no "window of opportunity." As long as you are walking around and doing gentle bends and stretches throughout each day, your knee will be just fine. But what has happened now is that his forcing your knee to the point where you vomited (I simply cannot believe someone doing that!! What is wrong with these people???), he has caused your tender healing tissues once again to get irritated and angry. It's going to take a week or so of serious rest and ice to recover. And, if you're hurting you need to get back on something for the pian for a while.
You will get better and back to where you were. But you need to avoid any more of those aggressive moves. You should bend only to the point of mild discomfort, hold it there about 5 seconds and then release. Your knee has swelling and that is what is inhibiting your ROM.
You will get better and back to where you were. But you need to avoid any more of those aggressive moves. You should bend only to the point of mild discomfort, hold it there about 5 seconds and then release. Your knee has swelling and that is what is inhibiting your ROM.
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Satsu
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Thank you all for your responses. I've had very limited ROM in my knee since that PT appointment. The guy made me feel like I was a loser or doomed because I didn't have as much ROM as he thought I should. He was not nice or helpful at all. When I asked him for an emesis basin, he didn't know what I was talking about, so I said a "puke bag/bucket", and he brings me a trash can and walks away. I've been very stressed out and depressed since that appointment because my knee is much worse again (feels very swollen on the inside), I can only bend it about half as far as I was able to before, and my pain level has skyrocketed back up again, just when it was getting a lot better. I haven't been able to sleep because of the stress this has caused me (seriously). My knee, and where the prosthesis connects to my tibia (just below my knee, in front) has been hurting like crazy, with the pain running down my leg and into my foot. I'm scared to death that this guy has damaged something in there. I'm trying to stay calm, but I'm not doing a very good job of it. It's been 3 days since he did this, and it's not getting better, which I why I'm so stressed out.
Paisleydoll
junior member
@Satsu - I've just read this thread and have been absolutely horrified at what you've gone through. You have more than every right to be stressed out, I'd be throwing things at people between crying fits if I were in your shoes.
You are in charge of your therapy, and "Stop" is a full sentence. Forcing your knee until you get sick is just so wrong, wrong, wrong, and makes me so mad for you, *I* want to thwack someone with my cane because of it! And if he argues it with you, you have every right to stop the session, go to who ever is in charge, and ask to work with someone else, or to take yourself elsewhere entirely. (Which is not something you really want to add to your list of things to deal with at this point, I know, but you need to do what's best for you.)
I'm thinking about you, and really hoping things start getting better very soon. Hang in there!
You are in charge of your therapy, and "Stop" is a full sentence. Forcing your knee until you get sick is just so wrong, wrong, wrong, and makes me so mad for you, *I* want to thwack someone with my cane because of it! And if he argues it with you, you have every right to stop the session, go to who ever is in charge, and ask to work with someone else, or to take yourself elsewhere entirely. (Which is not something you really want to add to your list of things to deal with at this point, I know, but you need to do what's best for you.)
I'm thinking about you, and really hoping things start getting better very soon. Hang in there!
Satsu, your knee has had a serious trauma and it is going to take some time...maybe a week or more....for it to get better. He has damaged your soft tissue and it's inflamed. It is very, very unlikely that there is any damage to the implant itself, though. Believe me....it is solid!! We have people (me included) that fall on concrete directly on their knee and the implant is just fine.
Are you icing and elevating your knee most of the day and through the night? Are you taking something for the pain? And are you mostly staying off your knee? It will take a lot longer to improve if you are not doing these things.
Are you icing and elevating your knee most of the day and through the night? Are you taking something for the pain? And are you mostly staying off your knee? It will take a lot longer to improve if you are not doing these things.
OP
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Satsu
junior member
Paisleydoll, thank you. And, yes, I will use my voice to tell him to stop if he forces anything again. It's Saturday night, and my knee still hurts from the appointment on Tuesday. I'm already stressing myself out about my next appointment on Monday.
Jamie, thank you for your assurances. Yes, I was afraid that maybe the PT damaged the prosthesis, my tibia, both, or caused it to become loose. I have been afraid of falling, too, which I tend to do every now and then (and, as you said, usually on concrete and landing smack dab on my knee. Just call me Grace).
I am icing, elevating, lying in bed and taking my meds. I feel like that's all I can do right now.
Jamie, thank you for your assurances. Yes, I was afraid that maybe the PT damaged the prosthesis, my tibia, both, or caused it to become loose. I have been afraid of falling, too, which I tend to do every now and then (and, as you said, usually on concrete and landing smack dab on my knee. Just call me Grace).
I am icing, elevating, lying in bed and taking my meds. I feel like that's all I can do right now.
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And that is all you should do, allow your knee to heal.
Djbrund
member
Satsu, do you think it's possible that a nurse or someone in the hospital could have been stealing your pain meds for themselves? I know that happens...
Anyway, I hope your pain is managed well now and that you are doing better than those horrific first several days. -- Joni
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Anyway, I hope your pain is managed well now and that you are doing better than those horrific first several days. -- Joni
Sent from my iPhone using BoneSmart Forum
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Satsu
junior member
Now, the surgeon, the PT, and my PC all say that I need MUA. They say I need to have it done right away, but once I tell them I'll do it, we have to wait for VA to approve it (and I've already said that VA is mess up). Maybe I didn't do enough to get things moving? My knee has felt very tight (like the picture of a leg in a cast in one of the articles on here), since I had the surgery. Once I got through the screaming Charley Horses, I did try. I've been pushing my knee as hard as I can for more flexion with a new exercise the PT showed me to do at home. I don't think it is helping. It's as stiff as it ever was, and even if I get a few more degrees while doing the exercise, it doesn't stay. The next time I do the exercise, it's right back to square one. I've been doing the exercise several times a day. It hurts to do it, but I know they're trying to see if I can stretch stuff out by myself, and I'm okay with that. I just don't think it's working.
Any advice, tips, cautions, etc. on MUA? Will I get the screaming Charley Horses again? What exercises should I do at home afterwards to make sure my knee doesn't get stuck again?
Any advice, tips, cautions, etc. on MUA? Will I get the screaming Charley Horses again? What exercises should I do at home afterwards to make sure my knee doesn't get stuck again?
@Satsu
It's your knee and no one can do an MUA without your consent. Say no.
It's totally untrue that you have only a limited time to gain ROM. You can continue to gain ROM for a year or even more after surgery.
Please listen to us and stop pushing your knee. It isn't helping. Your poor, wounded knee is crying out for a rest, so that those wounded tissues can heal.
There is a kinder, gentler way to rehab your knee than what you have been subjected to - and your knee will thank you for it.
It's your knee and no one can do an MUA without your consent. Say no.
It's totally untrue that you have only a limited time to gain ROM. You can continue to gain ROM for a year or even more after surgery.
Please listen to us and stop pushing your knee. It isn't helping. Your poor, wounded knee is crying out for a rest, so that those wounded tissues can heal.
There is a kinder, gentler way to rehab your knee than what you have been subjected to - and your knee will thank you for it.
OP
OP
Satsu
junior member
Celle, you're two days behind me in your Left TKR. Where are you at with movement of that knee? I need a reference point.
Anyone else who had TKR in September, want to chime in?
Has anyone had the MUA, and, if so, can you tell me how it turned out?
Anyone else who had TKR in September, want to chime in?
Has anyone had the MUA, and, if so, can you tell me how it turned out?
happymum
junior member
Hi @Satsu
I had my tkr 2 July this year. I left hospital after 3 weeks with a 60 rom flex. I am over 100 know just with gentle exercises and pool physio.
I saw my Ortho Surgeon last week and he was very pleased with my knee and told me I can still improve, feel better, have less swelling and better rom for the next at least 3 years!
Hope you can rest the knee more, ice, relax and just do gentle exercises from now on.
Take care,
Deb
I had my tkr 2 July this year. I left hospital after 3 weeks with a 60 rom flex. I am over 100 know just with gentle exercises and pool physio.
I saw my Ortho Surgeon last week and he was very pleased with my knee and told me I can still improve, feel better, have less swelling and better rom for the next at least 3 years!
Hope you can rest the knee more, ice, relax and just do gentle exercises from now on.
Take care,
Deb
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