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Spine Spine surgery desperately needed, but slow to arrive...

Grammyof2

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Dec 8, 2017
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79
Location
ME
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First, my history...

Spondylolisthesis and central canal stenosis have plagued me since 2004, though back then they were called "sore back" and Restless Legs Syndrome. I'm among the minority of RLS sufferers whose legs jump around because stenosis irritates their nerves in the spine.

My PCP prescribed Percocet, which stopped the jerking! But she retired a few months later and her replacement declined. For years, as the jerking got worse, a series of neurologists prescribed barely-helpful RLS drugs. Physical Therapy didn't help much. I worked in a health agency, assessing patients from behind a desk while my legs jerked around and I found excuses to move around my office. Sleep was rare.

Around 2007 a sleep doc (I also have sleep apnea) prescribed methadone. It helped! In 2013 he promised to start me on Bupropion, which has a longer half-life, saying that increasing doses of gabapentin while I took less and less methadone would ease the transition. He said withdrawal takes 6 months. I looked it up: it always takes 3 days. He lied, telling me I was wrong. I suffered mightily--gabapentin barely helped. With my lower body jerking every six seconds, I couldn't function at work or at home.

Desperate to keep working, I saw a spine surgeon at Scarborough, Maine's Spine Center (2 hours from home). I showed him a case study in which supposed RLS was stopped by spinal stenosis surgery. Assuming I was a faker trying to get disability, he laughed me out of his office.

So I had to quit the job I loved. Realizing his plan had failed, my sleep doc admitted he'd lied--he just wanted to stop prescribing methadone--and abruptly referred me to a different sleep doc and to a neurologist. An MRI revealed the Spondylolisthesis and central canal stenosis.

For years, when stuck sitting down or trying to sleep, only banging my knees together hundreds of times quelled that awful jerking sensation. The neurologist prescribed methadone, which stopped most jerking, but the damage was done: in 2017 and 2018, I had total knee replacements (physical therapy really helped then).

At this point, I could barely turn my head. A new MRI revealed cervical spine arthritis, so I was referred to another spine surgeon in in the Scarborough practice. (I keep going there because it's associated with Maine Medical Center, the biggest hospital in the state, and that's where the best spine surgeons work). He'd read the first man's notes, so he just ridiculed the obesity caused by lack of exercise and ushered me out, un-helped, warning of total body paralysis (but not offering surgery) and saying I'd have a heart attack soon because I was fat.

My PCP ordered lots of tests: my heart was fine.

Despite the TKRs, my lumbar spine pain meant I could no longer walk more than a block. We bought an Upwalker so I could get some exercise (fantastic!). My PCP referred me to a pain clinic ("Physiatry"). Over a couple of years, their interventional radiologist did 3 sets of rhizotomies, which permitted me to walk on my own, and they switched me to Suboxone (Bupropion + naloxone). During that 3-day withdrawal period, my body jerked 60 times a minute.

Standing up to clear the dinner dishes was agony, so I had an epidural spine injection. The jerking was GONE! That lasted a blissful three months, proving my theory that the stenosis caused it. The second injection lasted two months. Full of hope, and rarely in pain thanks to an ever-increasing dose of Suboxone, I set aside the UpWalker, bought a set of trekking poles, walked over a mile a day, worked out at the YMCA, and lost 80 pounds in 80 weeks.

In November of 2022, the burning, blazing, blowtorch pain I feel in the back of my thighs when I get up after lying down a while got even worse, so I was referred to a very kind interventional radiologist in the Scarborough practice. He studied a new MRI and said my back was worse now, so I could have spine surgery any time, but could delay if I wanted. My reflexes and strength were good and (thanks to pain meds) I could almost touch the floor. I decided to wait.

But I abruptly got worse in early December, so in January 2023 I asked him to refer me to a spine surgeon (*not* either of the mean ones), who would do the surgery. Here in Maine, there's a big shortage of doctors, including spine surgeons, so having been deemed surgery-worthy meant my consultation appt was three months away! My surgeon-to-be did order a new MRI, but his office messed up the order twice. My original interventional radiologist (from Physiatry) finally ordered it himself--it will happen April 20, at Maine Med.

The pain kept increasing, as did doses of Suboxone and gabapentin. I also took Tylenol and Ibuprofen until the latter made my blood pressure soar. I stopped it and started taking a blood pressure medication. Now I have edema, too.

On March 24, my Physiatrist said I had developed symptoms of early cauda equina (which paralyses patients if surgery doesn't happen soon) and sent me to the Maine Medical Center ER. They kept me 24 hours, in a johnny, being fed Saltines and water, waiting for the MRI that would be followed by emergency surgery. Then two things happened: an aide brought me a big dinner and a surgeon came to apologize and discharge me: No electrophysiologist would interrupt his own schedule to monitor my pacemaker during an MRI unless this was an emergency... and there was no way to *prove* it was an emergency until I had the MRI I couldn't get.

On April 4 I finally met my surgeon. We planned my surgery--just a stenosis decompression, not a bunch of fusions, since I'm 75 years old and longer surgery would mean longer anesthetic, which could harm me. Surgery will either happen immediately after the MRI (if I do turn out to be in danger of paralysis) or a few months later. Surgeons are now working 6-day weeks, but there are so few that it's impossible to keep up with the flood of patients.

He kept stressing the severe pain I must expect for months, while I heal. I kept shrugging. I'm writing this April 9, 2023. Let's see, which would I prefer? 1) My current pain, which sometimes has me shrieking for a few minutes at a time and will keep getting worse until I die? or 2) Intense pain after surgery that will gradually lead to healing and a lot less pain?

I don't quite know how I manage it, but I just keep floating along, doing what I can when I can, enduring both pain and medication-induced grogginess, sleeping a few hours here and there, focusing on every small good thing (we have two new cats now!) and remembering to thank and hug and kiss my dear husband, who's become a splendid chef. The day after the upcoming MRI will be our 50th wedding anniversary!
 
He kept stressing the severe pain I must expect for months, while I heal.
This was not what I experienced. Once the area is decompressed, discs and nerves are no longer impinged. Why is your surgeon telling you that you will be in severe pain?
 
I believe he was referring to the pain I'd have immediately after surgery and for a month or two afterwards, while I heal. He will prescribe oxycodone, but--as I learned after my TKRs, surgeons make sure never to prescribe it for long enough, so there's always a few weeks of pain after one runs out, before Tylenol alone suffices.

I'm really looking forward to eventual recovery!
 
Well we are all different and your situation could be different. But I have Spondylolisthesis, severe stenosis and degenerative discs. My sciatic nerved was trapped. Immediately after my decompression all the nerve pain was gone. The only medication I has was anti-inflammatory.

I would discuss this with your spinal surgeon.
 
Wow--no pain from the surgery? Thank you--that sounds fantastic!

The surgeon said that when he's reviewed my new MRI his office will set up an appt. for us to discuss the surgery in more detail. I'll be sure to ask him then.
 
My third try at physical therapy is working well. I've cut my 0xy code 0n us by half, which should enable me to need less anesthetic than expected. My bone density test was superb; my lab work is perfect.

I'd been worried that my surgery date would land in July-August, leaving me unable to enjoy the three brief (but wonderful) trips we take each summer. Thanks to the pain reduction, I've opted to wait until September 14.

I have a general idea of what recovery from decompression will be like, but need specifics... how I can and cannot move, for instance.

I also need to learn ways to avoid worsening my spondylolisthesis. I've been given major warnings (but few specifics) about that. It got worse between 2019 and 2023. I wonder what my life would be like if it keeps getting worse, and surgery is forbidden. I try to squat instead of bend, but can only get to a 90-degree knee angle (two TKRs).

What other precautions should I take, both for the spondy and after decompression surgery?
 
I have a general idea of what recovery from decompression will be like, but need specifics... how I can and cannot move, for instance.
This is very patient specific. Discuss your restrictions with your surgeon. In my case I had to adhere to the 90 degree rule for at least the first 6 weeks. Also no lifting or pushing anything heavy. Avoided twisting as well. I had to back sleep for the first 6 weeks.

If you are working with a physio who is a spine specialist they should be able to guide you as to good and bad ways move. Are you working on core stability with your physio? That will be key to moving forward with a decompressed spine.

At my final appointment before discharge, my surgeon told me to go live life. In my case, there were no activities that would make my spine worse. In fact limiting movement makes the situation worse. My motto is "just keep moving".
 
Thank you. I have a good physical therapist, and at our next appt I'll ask her for moree advice on all this. I'm slowly working on "flexibility" and core things, but not as quickly as I'd prefer, and I need to get farther before my sessions run out.

My spondy will limit my movement, at least according to my interventional radiologist. I need specifics from my PT about the kinds of twisting to avoid, since I do a lot of gardening and used to shovel dirt, and twist my way into corn plants and tall pea plants and search out winter squash in our raised beds.

Again--thanks!
 
I need specifics from my PT about the kinds of twisting to avoid
Just to clarify - my restrictions were temporary. Gardening, looking after a very large property with animals, hauling feed and mucking out stables were on my activity list until recently. You will be able to do all that gardening/shovelling, etc. You may feel stiff at times (I do everyday) but it really won't limit your activity.
 
Are you taking my spondylolisthesis into account? My vertebrae keep slipping. The pain requires a rhizotomy every so often. I don't want this to get worse. The physician who does my rhizotomies warned me against twisting and shoveling. He said it would make my spondy worse.
 
Are you taking my spondylolisthesis into account?
I'm just saying what worked for me. I have spondy as well. This is why I advised in my earlier post to have a good discussion with your surgeon. They are familiar with your medical situation and can advise accordingly.
 
Very interested in this thread as I have been dealing with very unusual spasms, including some RLS issues since approx 2 months after my LTKR. A May MRI confirmed a serious L4 L5 compression caused by?? Finally had an appointment yesterday with a spine specialist I will have a Laminectomy on August 14th. A bit of a recovery time but the symptoms should disappear. It has affected my knee recovery! Excited to hopefully get back to my normal active 75 year old self!
 
Hello, WillB. Best wishes to you. Hope you'll report back and let us know how it goes! You'll be about 4 weeks out when I have my own surgery.
 
@WillB You will indeed get back to active life. And in my experience the pain is gone instantly once those trapped nerves are released.

You will need to allow yourself recovery time. Be sure and discuss any restrictions you might have just post op.

Please start a thread in this forum (Other joints, Spine) so that we can support you through this journey.
 
@WillB You will indeed get back to active life. And in my experience the pain is gone instantly once those trapped nerves are released.

You will need to allow yourself recovery time. Be sure and discuss any restrictions you might have just post op.

Please start a thread in this forum (Other joints, Spine) so that we can support you through this journey.
Thread started today
 
I just got a big surprise. My spine surgeon called, a standard prelude to surgery (scheduled for Sept. 14); when I told him that physical therapy has reduced my pain from needing 20 mg Suboxone to needing only 8 mg plus some gabapentin, and that the only real pain I feel is when I get up in the night, he said...

"You don't need surgery."

He argued that it's "not a panacea," and I could end up with more pain rather than less. He said that people who take pain meds before surgery have a lot more pain after surgery (but who'd need surgery if they didn't have pain, for crying out loud??!!). He said I'll just have to take Suboxone for the rest of my life, and possibly reduce it via PT.

The best I could do was a compromise: I'll try reducing my dose to 6 mg/day and get back to him, and he'll hold the Sept. 14 date for a while (he's willing to find another date if I get worse).
 
Great to read your update. Loved seeing the name Scarborough as I’m in central NH!

Marie
 
I finally had my lumbar spinal stenosis surgery September 14, 2023. It went well. In fact, I had warned him that I surely had a new (3rd) stenosis area and I was right. (He couldn't do an MRI on the spot due to my pacemaker, but he did look for it and found it.)

Two areas were laminotomies and the third was a laminectomy. No fusion. I'm healing well, and that horrific radiculopathy pain is GONE. For more than a year it felt like my spine had an active volcano pouring red-hot lava down the backs on my legs.

I've resumed walking two or three miles each day with my trekking poles, having put my UpWalker back in the garage. The surgeon will phone me next week and say when I can resume PT.

Saw my interventional radiologist today. I won't be getting a bunch of fusions for my spondylolisthesis, so there's still that pain. Instead of resuming rhizotomies (radiofrequency ablations), he's encouraging me to have him do a Sprint PNS system. Ever heard of this?


"The system consists of coiled percutaneous leads that are typically implanted under ultrasound or fluoroscopic guidance and connected externally to a body-mounted pulse generator (Figure 1) [23,28,43]. The stimulating leads are placed remote (e.g., 0.5–3 cm) from the target nerve to deliver a stimulation waveform (asymmetric charge-balanced biphasic pulse train, 1–30 mA, 10–200 μs) at 100 Hz with the goal of producing comfortable sensations covering the region of pain, or at 12 Hz with the goal of producing comfortable, cycling muscle activity secondary to the activation of the nerve [44]. Patients are able to adjust the intensity of stimulation using a wireless remote to maintain comfort throughout the treatment period. Stimulation is delivered for up to 60 days, after which the percutaneous leads are removed by clinical staff by applying gentle traction to the external portion of the lead, and patients proceed to follow-up as directed by their physician."

It would be attached to my back for a while, then removed. It makes some sort of vibration that interferes with my brain's perceptions of pain signals. The effects might last a year.

Not sure what I think of this. I was expecting to plan my next set of rhizotomies, so I feel kind of stunned. Anyone familiar with these?
 
Nerve stimulators have been around for quite awhile. But this is really the state of the art. I read the study you linked and a few others and apparently patients are seeing very good results from this less invasive treatment. Sounds like your radiologist is really in clued into what is available for pain relief. If I was offered this I would jump at the chance.

Please keep us updated!
 
That's very good to hear! Thank you. He's only done about a dozen so far (I think he said he'd done four the morning of m appt with him), so he has no clue about how much people like them months down the road.

I feel encouraged. I'll see him again at the end of November; that's when we'll decide how to proceed.
 

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