TKR Possible 2nd MUA and possible referral needed

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Re: My saga continues :(

Best I can suggest is that you try to find a CRPS/RSD forum as it's a bit beyond my knowledge and skills. I do know that it, and it's sub-condition RSD, is not a 'forever' condition, it does abate over time but it's longer for some people than others. To be honest, the blocks aren't fun and often the patient is left with no confirmed diagnosis and on rare occasions, even find they make things worse for a while. My reading leads me to suppose that the best methods of treatment are a "try it and see" form of pain management, getting with a good non-invasive pain doctor. The choices in that are legion but you would be better talking with people who really know this condition. I've had a look but can't find anything on a superficial search.

On the optimistic side, CRPS is reckoned to be extremely rare and most suspected cases actually turn out to be cases of mismanaged pain. Therapy can include various pain meds often combos, ice, heat, PT, massage, counselling, aromatherapy, cognitive training, group therapy, herbal remedies, hypnosis and almost anything else you can think of!

In other words (I think) the medical fraternity doesn't really know what to do with people who have long term intractable pain - its biggest problem being that it's a relatively newly defined condition and much where fibromyalgia was several years ago. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
 
Re: My saga continues :(

Thanks for the responses all. I had another heart to heart with my PT today. Thank God for this guy. I had called him yesterday when I left my PMs office to give him a heads up as to what my PM said. PT honestly does not believe that CRPS is my problem (something I would be thrilled to hear). He said while some things "fit"... some don't. Here's hoping the neurosurgeon can shed some light on Monday.

I'm okay with a long drawn out, even somewhat complicated, recovery s/p TKR. I just want to know what's wrong, and how it happened. It amazes me that every doctor I see has a completely different take on things.

Keeping my fingers crossed for Monday.
 
Re: My saga continues :(

Hang in there! Our thoughts and prayers are with you. I am hopeful that when yo see the neurosurgeon, that he can get you a diagnosis that gets you on your way with knowledge and treatment...hopefully, the less guesswork and more help for you.
 
Re: My saga continues :(

I know how frustrating it is to have the "unknown". I'll send positive thoughts that you will be pointed in the right direction quickly. From what you describe, I think you are taking all the right steps and being your own best advocate. That's fantastic (if there's a silver lining).
 
Re: My saga continues :(

Jill,

I hope they can get this pain problem figured out!

You deserve to live pain free and I hope that they can get to the bottom of this problem very soon!:thumb:
 
Re: My saga continues :(

Jill, I understand your consternation over the fact that your various doctors do not seem to be on the same page . . . plus the fact that this syndrome is rare is no consolation. I just hope there is another explanation, one which can be addressed. What a trial this has been.
 
Re: My saga continues :(

Hi Jill, hope you are hanging in there! We are all anxious to see your update on Monday. Fingers and toes crossed!
 
Re: My saga continues :(

It truly touches my heart to have this kind of support here. Thank you all so sooooo much. My family still "gets it" (usually).... but I know they are as frustrated as I am. They (my husband and sons ages 21 & 24) see me in continued pain, walking with crutches and still unable to lift my heel off the ground or lift my leg - I use a leg lifter for everything. I can only do a fraction of what I used to, and they still need to drive me everywhere.

I am doing what I can to accept this "whatever" that is going on with me. I keep my spirits up around people, my PT calls me "sunshine" and most people I think wouldn't know I was in pain. My time when I lose it and let it out is in the middle of the night when no one is around... I usually get a good cry in and feel better for letting some of that pent up emotion out. Venting to all of you - who know what I'm going through and feeling... is as therapeutic to me as my PT and middle of the night cries.

In my attempts for some normalcy... I'm switching things up at work - parterning up with a woman (we are Realtors) so that I can maybe start doing a little bit. I obviously cannot show clients houses, but can do some mailings and even listings I think. I also traded in my new 2011 SUV (which I loved!!!) this weekend for a 2011 new car. I have been unable to sit behind the wheel of my SUV given the condition of my left leg. I found sitting in a car with lower seats and my legs more in front (rather than down in the higher seat in the SUV) is doable for short periods of time. Gaining back some of my independence is KEY in getting some shred of my life back.

I will be sure to let everyone know what the NS says on Monday. My PT is cautioning me to not to expect the NS to have ALL the answers, but perhaps another piece of the puzzle. He feels my next step will be maybe Philly, NYC or Boston... we just need to figure out the exact specialist I need to seek out.

Thanks for listening... again. You guys seriously rock!!
 
Re: My saga continues :(

One constant I have heard in the various conferences I attend is that sometimes where there is unidentifiable pain, the only answer is to do a revision. Even though there is no particular evidence for any problems, surgeon after surgeon has said that they will do a revision and find it resolves the pain.
 
Re: My saga continues :(

Would they do a revision for the physical issues as well? While I certainly don't care for the pain, it is the lack of ability to straight leg raise my TKR leg, or lift my heel off the ground, that I (and my PT) find very disturbing. When I lay on my back on the table at PT and try to lift my leg, it is as if there is a magnetic force holding my heel to the table. I use every muscle in my body in my attempt to lift my leg off the table...the knee raises a little but the heel remains stuck on the table. I also can't bend/lift my leg while standing (as if to walk up a stair) more than 6", so stairs remain one at a time. And when I "throw" my leg forward in a walking motion, I can only step forward about 6-8". It all relates to the something with that femoral nerve and the quad muscles.

My PT has done extensive testing with me - isolating which muscles and nerves fire or don't fire, and when. He will be contacting the neurosurgeon and having a talk with him prior to my visit on Monday. In the meanwhile... my OS hasn't contacted me at all, even after the PM doc called him and talked to him about his thoughts regards CRPS. Sadly, I am losing faith in him.

Thanks again for all your thoughts!
 
Re: My saga continues :(

"physical issues" is a bit vague as anything and everything involved with this is a "physical issue". Whilst it is very possible to have problems with specific muscles and/or nerves, badly placed prostheses can cause such symptoms as well and sometimes it's anybody's guess what is causing the pain.
 
Re: My saga continues :(

Parla, thank you for your comments and thoughts. Im in the process of re-reading/catching up on your thread. The make of my replacement is escaping me at this time, but I have my OR notes upstairs and will check it out and let you know. I live in Upstate NY, so NYC, Boston or Philly would be doable for me if it meant getting to the right person - just not sure if it would be an OS, neuro or who.

Like you my quads are not engaging - the inner one (vastus medialis) is pretty much useless. I do have diagnostically confirmed femoral nerve damage, which we know is why the muscles aren't doing their job. What all the docs don't know, is how the nerve damage happened.

OS's say it had to happen during the spinal epidural. Anesthesiologist's say no way it could happen then. PM doc says CRPS. I joked with my family that if I went to see a dermatologist, they'd say it was related to acne I had as a teenager! Hopefully the neurosurgeon is helpful on Monday.

Jo - By physical issues I was referring to the nerve & muscle damage, the inability to lift my foot or straight leg raise and my kneecap not tracking correctly. Right now my inability to use my leg is far more concerning to myself and my doctors, than my pain level. Right now I'm a little "gun shy" about having anything else done... for fear of more problems or making those that I have worse.

~Jill
 
Re: My saga continues :(

I think you are being very sensible to steer away from revision. If the problem is diagnosed nerve and muscle damage, I can't see how it could do any good. .

It sounds like you are in the hands of specialists dealing with pain and nerves, and I really hope things start to improve for you. You are going through tough times!

I'm only a layperson, but from what I've read, most cases of painful knee replacements do improve. See my earlier thread with some links to journal papers.

Keep posting and let us know if we can help.
 
Re: My saga continues :(

Jill,

I am sorry that you are having to go through all of this!

I noticed you talking about the kneecap not tracking properly. Well if it isn't in place, as I have found out, I can't do straight leg raises, and it makes walking very painful. Are you in PT now? There are exercises that they can so to strengthen the muscles and ligaments around your knee and that will help with some of your problem.


 
Re: My saga continues :(

Well, sometimes malaligned implants can cause problems that very closely ape nerve and muscle damage or other problems. And all too many surgeons fluff off such problems as nothing to do with the implants/surgery when the opposite it true.
 
Not sure if anyone remembers me??

Hello Everyone,

I was here a bit at the end of last year, beginning of this after a TKR on 11/11/10 that didn't go as routinely as planned. I was diagnosed with significant femoral nerve damage afterward. Now that I am approaching my one year "anniversary" I wanted to check back in here. I find it kind of humorous to classify it as an "anniversary", as I always feel anniversaries are something to be celebrated, and truth be told, if I could I'd go back to 11/10/10, walking in pain and with a limp... and would still be far better off than I am today.

But... life is what it is. And we deal with the cards we've been dealt. I am 46 years old and will (most likely) forever walk with the aid of a crutch - which protects me when my knee gives way (happens all the time), as I do not have the nerve/muscle ability to catch myself. I take Percocet on a daily basis, just enough to lessen the deep throbbing ache - nothing helps the nerve pain, and anything stronger makes me foggy and unable to function - so you learn to live with the pain. Standing up, bending my leg on my own I cannot bend it more than 45 degrees, if I brace my foot on the ground it bends to 80 (this is after MUA). Stairs will forever be one at a time. I need a leg lifter to get in and out of my car - speaking of cars, I had to get rid of my brand new SUV that I bought 3 months prior to my TKR, as I was never able to bend my leg enough to get in the front seat again. (Try trading in a brand new car that is only a few months old... you seriously take a beating on that!!). I cannot sit in regular seats on planes, trains, movie theaters, or concert/sports arenas. In a regular chair I have to sit on the end of it, as I cannot have the edge of the chair press against the back of my thigh (sends pains down to my ankle). I have to park in handicapped parking because the door on my car has to be wide open in order for me to sit down in the driver seat, use the leg lifter and lift my leg over the door in order to tuck it in under the dash. I don't take walks. I cannot ride a bike. I continue in PT, which will likely be a lifestyle. I'm back to work after 7 mos. off. I'm a Realtor and showing and sellling houses is kinda tough, but I take my time and my clients are wonderfully understanding. The list goes on folks.

Because the femoral nerve feeds the quad muscle and the quad muscle manipulates the kneecap, my kneecap doesn't track correctly and is out of place. It causes intense pressure, pain and swelling and when I bend my knee there is a "block" of some sort in there.

I can accept (usually) these cards I have been dealt. I have my moments though, if I must be honest. I have seen spinal surgeons, neurologists, neurosurgeons, orthopedic doctors - having gone to Manhatten over the summer to see a specialist there - with the hopes that someone can shed at least SOME light on how this happened. Sadly, no one knows if it was the tournniquet or the spinal epidural. Different doctor have differing opinions. I am noticing that "like" doctors stick together - even if they don't know one another. And NO doc is going to "take down" another one. I'm not even talking from a legal aspet... I just want to know how this happened to me.

I've have EMG/NCS in 12/10 and again in 8/10 - which showed improvement but no regeneration of the nerve. I cannot straight leg raise, nor can I "kick" my leg out from the knee down. My OS is clueless. In fact the last time I was there he actually said, "Jill, you scare the **** out of me. I have no idea what the heck went wrong". Probably the first honest thing he's said to me since Nov. In his attempts to give me "answers" he has offered to go in and just "remove my kneeap altogether" or "go in and just start digging around", both things that I of course laughed at, and the OS in NYC confirmed that you NEVER have your kneecap removed.

Tomorrow I am seeing a local orthopedic surgeon for another opinion. It's like I keep digging and digging.... hoping a doctor somewhere will have some answers. One thing all medical professionals seem to agree on, is that while I have shown some improvement, albeit very little, it has taken me this long to see this little bit... the chances of me ever being fully recovered are slim to none.

The one thing that terrifies me is that I know eventually I will have to have my other knee done, and one thing I have noticed is that it is taking on a whole lot MORE of the "load" now, and getting sorer and sorer day by day. Its the only leg I can use to get out of a chair, off the toilet, it supports me on each stair one by one, I rest on it more and more to give my "bad" leg a rest... etc. How will I EVER get the nerve to have that one done??? Aaaaackkkkkk!!!!!

I have spoken with an attorney (2 actually) and have been told that there is no legal recourse. Not because I signed something (signing something does not give an MD "permission" to harm us just because we signed it), but because nerve problems are so hard to prove in court. Nerve issues can occur even when the procedure is done by textbook standards and it has to be proven that the doctor did something wrong. In my case, we don't even know what caused it and wouldn't know who to go after anyway. I haven't given up on it yet, but right now I'm concentrating on trying to figure it all out from a mental standpoint and just dealing day to day.

Once again.... I've written a novel. I've said it before... it's like therapy to put the words down. I have supportive friends and family, but no one gets the pain thing unless they have lived it themselves. Thank you for listening. I know I should be here, in this place, with all of you more... people who understand and know.

Thank you for taking the time to read through this... it is very much appreciated.
 
Re: Not sure if anyone remembers me??

Hi Jill, welcome back!! I do remember reading your posts towards the end of last year and have often thought about you and wondered what happened. I just can't imagine everything you have been through with your knee!! It is mind-boggling to say the least!

My only thought is to keep searching for opinions from top doctors, even if you have to travel far away. Hopefully, some of the BoneSmart 'experts' will be on soon to give you better advice than 'lil ole me.'

I just wanted to let you know that, while I haven't been through anything nearly as horrific as you, I do understand some of your pain and frustrations from my own personal experiences recently. You are not alone!! I, for one, care and will keep you in my prayers, and if you don't mind, I'll add you to several local prayer lists that I belong to! Please keep us updated regularly when possible! Take care!! :console:
 
Re: Not sure if anyone remembers me??

Oh my gosh... I just re-read my post and it sounds like I am having an awful pity party for myself. I think because I typed it in the middle of the night, I was in pain and feeling somewhat vulnerable. I just wanted to say that I remain optimistic that I will continue to regain some more function. I know things could be soooo much worse. I am thankful that I AM able to walk and that my issues are orthopedic and not a terrible sickness or disease that has no cure. I joke that my insides are great... nice and healthy, it's my shell that stinks!! :-)

I apologize for sounding so "sad" last night. Over the months I have had a few people email me stating that they saw that I had femoral nerve issues and asking how things have turned out. I just thought the one year mark was a good time for an update.

I do think I need the support that this board offers, so I do plan to be around more!! Thanks again everyone.
 
Re: Not sure if anyone remembers me??

Big cyber (((((((hug))))))) for you Jill. So sorry you are really having a bad time. Please don't feel the least bit bad about sharing the low times. That's what this forum is about. We support you through the good and hard times.

I think you are doing the right thing. Get another opinion and don't give up until you get some answers! I know it's hard to keep at it sometimes but in the end you need to feel comfortable about what lies ahead.

I'm very glad you're back. Please stick with us - we are here to support you.
 
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