TKR Possible 2nd MUA and possible referral needed

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Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Jill, I am so pleased to hear the HUGELY positive points in your post - you were able to walk on the treadmill (no matter that it was at a slow speed for only 10 minutes...you DID it!) and that you did a leg lift!!! You need to feel very good about these accomplishments.

I know you're not where you want to be at this stage, but the fact that you have a great therapist who is helping you move in a positive direction is wonderful.

It does sound like you might need to think about an MUA and I believe your surgeon is looking out for you since he will not use any type of spinal anesthethic. I would assume a general is always an option, but you do need to talk with him about your options.

My prayers are with you. Please let us know how things go. ((((HUGS)))))
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Jill, One of the reasons I check this forum every day (other than not having gotten my life back yet) is that I'm hoping for your situation to get resolved.

I posted about my MUA today. For someone like you, it would be a barely noticeable speedbump. Four weeks of PT efforts to gain ROM without one degree improvement made me so despondent I was willing to do almost anything.

You're right. Waiting is the worst. It isn't the procedures that bother me. It's being worried and scared, and not knowing. Advice to me was to fill up my days with as much good stuff as possible. Funny movies, good music, good reading, caring people, little comforts. Looking forward to news next week.
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Hi All. Okay... more news. I had my appointment with the spine specialist today. He went over my CT results and my EMG/nerve studies, as well as calling for a copy of my OR notes and going over them as well. He believes that all my issues are not from the tourniquet, but from the spinal epidural. He explained to me and showed me on a model, where the nerve studies showed the problem to be and it was about the tourniquet. I was actually a bit relieved about this because it means the error was NOT my surgeons (I really like the guy!).

Before he can say with absolute certainty that the spinal is the cause, he needs to rule out any problems with the discs, pinched nerve, etc. Therefore he is ordering a CT myelogram and an ultrasound of the pelvis for next week. (I am unable to have MRIs due to a pain management device I have implanted in my occipital nerves)

The CT scan of the spine which was done last week did not show any significant abnormalities. The spine surgeon's concern is that because I was 8 weeks s/p my TKR when I had the CT performed, that any damage that may have been done during the epidural (he mentioned several things which I of course cannot remember now except something about a possible bleed around a nerve or something??) was done, left behind the damage (ie the femoral nerve damage, the quad damage, my inability to lift my leg or bend it, the bladder abnormalities,etc) and has already healed - therefore it wouldn't show on any imaging. So the way to find out what went/is wrong... is to eliminate other issues.

So I now find myself turning to all of you. I've heard myelograms are not fun. My spine doctor even said to me today that he would do everything in his power to keep me from having to undergo this test as he feels I have been through so much already. But alas, he called a couple hours after I left his office, having had conference calls with the physiologist who did the EMG/nerve studies and my OS, and here I am. I told him that I didn't think ANYTHING on this great earth could be as painful as the EMG/NCS. He then proceeded to tell me with a smile, "that I got a special test". Lucky me, huh?? He said that EMGs are seldom done to the groin area (multiple times I might add!), but that in my case, the test results warranted it. He then said that the myelogram consisted of a long thicker needle into the spine. (No way in hell I'm going back to the same hospital and possibly having the same anesthesiologist take a poke at my back again). He said it would be fun, but he knows all I've been through (he's the surgeon who did both of my cervical spine surgeries) and he knows I can handle it.

When I talked to him about the possibilities of MUA or of surgery because of the kneecap... he said those are waaaaay off in the future and that we need to deal with the much bigger problems at hand. He also mentioned that he thought there was a smaller window of time to have a manipulation when its muscle and nerve damage keeping the leg from bending as opposed to the bending not happening because of lesions (although he says I probably have those too). I look to Jo and Jamie for your thoughts on this.

So that's the update. I'll know more next week. I haven't even talked to my spine doctor about what it "all" means in the end, or if anything has really even changed, except having some answers. Thanks again for "listening".... it's so therapeutic just to get the words down on paper.

~Jill




There appears to be very little doubt that my issues are related to the epidural
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Gosh, Jill....this is beyond my ability to discuss, so I'm going to tag Josephine @Josephine: and maybe she can offer some good advice.
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Wow Jill, you certainly have a lot on your plate. As a person who has suffered from back issues for many years I so sympathize with you!

As Jamie says Jo is probably the person who should comment from a technical point of view. But I just want you to know we are all here rooting for you.

This site was a real help for me through tough times. I hope we can do that for you as well.

Take care!
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Hi Jill! I've been thinking about you. I want you better (okay?) No answers from this corner. Maybe one or two strategy ideas.

Number one, it would think it would be very hard for the them to discern if you have an adhesion issue if you have the overshadowing nerve issue. I've seen studies mention adhesion incidence rates from 2-10%. So it's unlikely you have adhesions. Not impossible though.

It sounds as if all your physicians are working well as a team. I'm assuming you have a primary care physician. At times like this, a primary can help us sort out all the pieces of information and suggested treatments coming from the specialists. Mine has been invaluable.

I'm sure, also, that you already know to keep a running list of questions to ask. So hopefully others here will be able to provide some insight, or have personal experience to share. Good luck!
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

This is just my personal opinion but no way on God's earth would I ever have a myelogram done!
Inject radio-opaque dye into the spinal canal? Not likely!

A myelogram shows nothing that an MRI cannot show.
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Hi Jo,

I can't have an MRI done, which is why they are doing the CT myelogram. A year and a half ago I had an occipital neuromodulator implanted. The computer is situated in my back over my left rib cage, and the leads run up my spine and are implanted into the greater and lesser occipital nerves.

Is this test something I should be worried about? Is the solution that is injected different than say barium or when "contrast" is injected?
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

I'm with Jo. However, I think Jill mentioned she cannot undergo an MRI because of some occiputal nerve implant. I know nothing about those, but is there any way that can be temporarily removed so you can have an MRI?
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Hi Mary,

I wish it could be temporarily removed. It was an incredibly expensive surgery that I had to fight my insurance company tooth and nail to have done. They completely shaved 2/3 of my head and put a 2-3" incision down the back of my skull. Without this implant I have debilitating headaches and nerve pain to the back of my head - laughing causes pain severe enough that it causes vomiting, as well as horrible head pressure and a vise-like grip on my head...making it an effort to keep my eyes open.

If it comes out voluntarily, I'd never get the insurance company to pay to put it back in.
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Oh I forgot that - so sorry, Jill.

The contrast they used in years past was called Hypaque and it had a history of causing problems. However, there must surely be safer alternatives now. Please check with your doctor before you let him do anything.
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

Hi Jill,
Thinking of you . . .

:th_console:
 
Re: Follow up visit with OS today

I had a myeloogram about 35 yr ago when I herniated a lumbar disc. I also believe that the procedure has only gotten better since then! For me, it caused a very short term discomfort (shooting "electrical" type pain down the legs for a couple of minutes) and then the pain was gone. I have had much more painful procedures (nerve block of coccyx and bil. injections of sacroiliac joint to name a few) and sometimes you just have to proceed because the info gained is priceless in terms of getting the care needed to make a good recovery. If the myelogram is your only option, ask for the most experienced person to do the injection of the dye, if you can. I will be thinking of you, and hope that they quickly get to the bottom of this nerve problem - so that your recovery can really move ahead.
 
Question about not using knee

Hi All. A quickie recap - I am 10+ weeks s/p LTKR with complications. I have nerve damage that happened at the time of surgery, (believed to have happened when the epidural was placed) leaving me with the inability to bend or lift my leg. I am typically around 30 degrees flexion, however, with PT he has been able to get me to 50 degrees. After weeks of pretty intense PT, I can on occasion lift my leg about 1/2 to 1" off the PT table. I cannot undergo manipulation, or any surgery that I might need on my kneecap (it doesn't glide properly) until AFTER the nerve damage has healed. (I say until... but they can't tell me if the damage is permanent or not).

I have a friend who asked me the other day if any damage is being done to the new knee because it isn't really being used. That got me thinking... I know there is probably scar tissue forming, but is there anything that could go wrong with the implant if it technically isn't being "used"?

Any thoughts? Thanks!
 
Re: Question about not using knee

Jill, scar tissue can develop, but it's not because you are are not using your leg as much as you would if you didn't have these problems. It either develops or it doesn't.

What are the doctors telling you about your ROM or has it been a while since you've seen your surgeon?
 
Re: Question about not using knee

Hi Jill,

What I have read supports what Jamie is saying. I'm not an ortho but I cannot see how the implant would be endangered by disuse of the limb. There are conditions that affect implant but your nerve problem, I don't think, has any bearing. But confirm with your ortho for your own peace of mind.

Best wishes . . .
 
Re: Question about not using knee

I am so sorry to hear of your problems. This is my biggest fear and nightmare with anesthesia. that fear has made me choose General Anesthesia for every surgery--I am so worried about anything in my back--which currently works fine!!

I am hoping with you that he nerve damage will heal. In the meantime, why not have your pt move the leg for you--that will simulate the flexing that would occur if you could bend the knee. My deepest sympathy--and hopes that all ends well. Kelly
 
Re: Question about not using knee

My PT does bend my knee, but it doesn't go past 50 degrees. He believes and my OS concurs that there is something within the joint that is preventing it from bending. There is also the damage to the femoral nerve that somehow plays into my inability to bend or lift it. Because there is significant damage to this nerve (and therefore the inner thigh muscle as well) even if a manipulation was done (which everyone agrees I need), my body won't be able to sustain the bend afterward.

Also the nerve/muscle issue doesn't have my kneecap "tracking" properly and possible surgery for that has been mentioned as well. If my PT gets on his knees and pushes my kneecap down and in... this alleviates some of the horrible pain and pressure I feel. He also has been working on slightly "torquing" my lower leg and/or my knee in different directions to see what helps relieve some of the pain as he has me bend it. We both noticed last week that the bottom of my knee seems to be bulging out more (not a swelling) then it wa before and when I bend during PT the little bit that I can, it has a strange rolling/moving sensation inside. I know that makes no sense, but I don't know how else to describe it. He says with everything going on inside me... I could probably expect lots of different feelings.

I truly thank God for my PT. He is my saving grace (as is this forum and all of you) and gives me hope each day. My spine surgeon feels I will be in PT for as long as this nerve issue remains a problem (min of a year is "best case" right now) as he wants as much stimulation and movement to my leg - even if it means someone moving it for me. My ins only allows 30 visits postop, so the paperwork begins for the added PT visits. Hopefully with everyone in agreement on this end...my insurance company will see fit to allow me more. Now... if I can just keep up with the $500/month in copays for just the PT alone. Ugh.

Thank you all for "listening" once again. Have a great rest of the weekend. If you live in the northeast as I do... bundle up and stay warm!!
 
Re: Question about not using knee

Jill, I have similar problems with the kneecap not wanting to "track".
As the swelling has gone down, the kneecap is tracking more easily.:snk: It has taken a while, and a lot of frustrating moments of "moving the kneecap around, but it is tracking so much better now!:th_yahoo:

Does your therapist manipulate your kneecap? If not ask them to do so and it will help with the tracking. It might take a little while, but it is definitely worth it!:snk:
 
Re: Question about not using knee

Jill, God bless you, hon. This is quite a challenge you have on your plate. You are keeping a wonderful attitude about the work ahead, though, and that is important.

Please let us know if there is any support or help we can provide to help get you through the coming months. I wish I had a magic wand to make the time go faster for you. (((HUGS))))
 
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