jaschembra
post-grad
United StatesDue to some times (1 a.m.) I just happened to notice on your replies, I do hope your were just up late having a good time and that you weren't having difficulty sleeping with those knees. 
TKR Phrog's Great Expectations - Downgraded a Little<
- Thread starter phrog
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OP
OP
phrog
senior
@jaschembra - actually the last two nights have been better on the sleep/knee front. 
This morning I woke hurting around five, but rolled over and went back to sleep. Knee-rah! Two nights in a row I didn't get up until after 6 a.m.! I 've been going to bed around 11 - which is 1 am your time. I think stretching it past 10 is helping me sleep longer. I guess we all see the times in our own time zones, not the one posting. Thanks for kindness!
This morning I woke hurting around five, but rolled over and went back to sleep. Knee-rah! Two nights in a row I didn't get up until after 6 a.m.! I 've been going to bed around 11 - which is 1 am your time. I think stretching it past 10 is helping me sleep longer. I guess we all see the times in our own time zones, not the one posting. Thanks for kindness!
liam2015
post-grad
what a fantastic report from your surgeon appointment and he does sound like a sensible person ~ at least he admitted the 1 year recovery was more accurate than the 6 week recovery that many give. good luck getting your thyroid regulated; you'll feel much better when it is. great you're getting better sleep also. i can't go to bed until i watch the CTV news, national and local and then the weather at 11:45. after that i watch my 2 soaps, if i can stay awake, so i rarely get to bed before 1 or 1:30. luckily hubby gets up with the dog and crates him so i can sleep in a bit. my heart goes out to the situation in california, the people, the animals, the homes and environment. hope your family and friends are okay.
OP
OP
phrog
senior
@liam2015 - Thanks so much -My family in the Tubbs, Nun and Cascade fires are all OK. Amongst them there are seven houses, all standing. So thankful as all of them were under evacuation orders at one time or another. Now they are grieving for their neighbors and friends who were not as lucky.
You are quite a night owl! And you have a nice husband! I spent my 25 years in the classroom having to get up at 5 am as school started at 7:10 and I had to be there a half hour before. That turned me into a morning person - but beyond that I got in the habit of waking up and worrying what I hadn't prepared for the day. Retirement four years ago didn't help much and the knee set me to waking up several times a night. I would love to think that the last two nights mean I am at least getting back to staying in bed until 5 or 6. I think it might be that I was so wired up worrying (my middle name) about what the doctor was going to say that I exhausted myself this week and was finally tired enough to sleep. And maybe I am finally believing that the knee itself is OK. I've been obsessive thinking I must have an infection or metal allergy or something else nefarious going on to have the amount of pain I've had. Hyperthyroid I can deal with - been there, done that and survived it just fine in the past.
You are quite a night owl! And you have a nice husband! I spent my 25 years in the classroom having to get up at 5 am as school started at 7:10 and I had to be there a half hour before. That turned me into a morning person - but beyond that I got in the habit of waking up and worrying what I hadn't prepared for the day. Retirement four years ago didn't help much and the knee set me to waking up several times a night. I would love to think that the last two nights mean I am at least getting back to staying in bed until 5 or 6. I think it might be that I was so wired up worrying (my middle name) about what the doctor was going to say that I exhausted myself this week and was finally tired enough to sleep. And maybe I am finally believing that the knee itself is OK. I've been obsessive thinking I must have an infection or metal allergy or something else nefarious going on to have the amount of pain I've had. Hyperthyroid I can deal with - been there, done that and survived it just fine in the past.
liam2015
post-grad
yes, they say old habits die hard. i used to work shift work and i loved night shifts (before kids), coming home in the morning with the whole day to myself; would watch a soap, have a nap, get dinner ready and maybe another little nap before getting to work at 11 p.m. i have never been able to get up early and feel well, although day shift started at 7 a.m. our bodies seem to remember. so glad your family and friends are okay; such a traumatic time. hope you can relax now about your knee!
OP
OP
phrog
senior
@liam2015 - my dad was a cop who worked nights. He loved shift work too - he said because the "grown-ups" worked days and he could work without constant interruption from the chief. I am paying less attention to my knee over the past two days and the result is I feel better! Funny how that works.
How is your knee, Liam? I am a bout 6 weeks ahead of you, I think. You said before you were getting massage and acupuncture, I think? Are you still doing that? Does it work for you? I'm thinking about massage. I try to massage my IT band myself, but I'm not very good at it.
How is your knee, Liam? I am a bout 6 weeks ahead of you, I think. You said before you were getting massage and acupuncture, I think? Are you still doing that? Does it work for you? I'm thinking about massage. I try to massage my IT band myself, but I'm not very good at it.
liam2015
post-grad
that's sweet about your dad. i just loved being home in the day while everyone was at work, of course, not taking into account that i'd be working all night.
i did get massage and acupuncture and it always felt so good. i haven't been to physio for over 2 weeks now; not sure if i'll go back unless i want help with strengthening. i think i can recover on my own. the swelling has gone down but not completely ~ who knows if the treatments helped or did time help? the only thing i am frustrated with is i still cannot pedal a full rotation on my bike; even set the seat up higher. other than that, i'm doing great; just short-lived pain/stiffness after sitting, then standing up but no pain walking. you might like massage; it feels good in a therapeutic way lol! i also had laser therapy and "tens" machine at every session, along with ice packs. i only had treatments at physio, no exercising; given home exercises which i cherry-picked.
i did get massage and acupuncture and it always felt so good. i haven't been to physio for over 2 weeks now; not sure if i'll go back unless i want help with strengthening. i think i can recover on my own. the swelling has gone down but not completely ~ who knows if the treatments helped or did time help? the only thing i am frustrated with is i still cannot pedal a full rotation on my bike; even set the seat up higher. other than that, i'm doing great; just short-lived pain/stiffness after sitting, then standing up but no pain walking. you might like massage; it feels good in a therapeutic way lol! i also had laser therapy and "tens" machine at every session, along with ice packs. i only had treatments at physio, no exercising; given home exercises which i cherry-picked.
Pheebs52
big-cheese
@phrog, what a stellar report from your OS! I'm delighted for you, especially since you can now relax about the aches and pains and have actually *forgotten* about your knee for the last 2 days; huzzah! Sleeping better and more hours is also a huge blessing; woot! Once the thyroid becomes properly adjusted, there'll be no stopping you!
I'm keeping all in harm's way in Cali in my thoughts and prayers. I read the stories and see the photos every day and the level of devastation is just shocking. May your family and friends remain safe.
I'm keeping all in harm's way in Cali in my thoughts and prayers. I read the stories and see the photos every day and the level of devastation is just shocking. May your family and friends remain safe.
OP
OP
phrog
senior
@liam2015, wish I had a solution for the bike. Since swelling is less, and you can go up stairs, it seems as if the rotation for the bike can't be far behind. I hope so!
Thanks, @Pheebs52. I haven't quite forgotten my leg, I'm just ignoring it more and it is easier to deal with since I now know it's nothing that time and less thyroid won't heal. (I should have believed that before but . . . I can't even finish that sentence. There is no reasonable but.).
The fires are entering containment, though not fully yet. All of my relatives although evacuated more than once, were spared. Sadly, so many of their neighbors were not. It's uplifting to see how people are helping one another. It will be a long time before things are normal.
Thanks, @Pheebs52. I haven't quite forgotten my leg, I'm just ignoring it more and it is easier to deal with since I now know it's nothing that time and less thyroid won't heal. (I should have believed that before but . . . I can't even finish that sentence. There is no reasonable but.).
The fires are entering containment, though not fully yet. All of my relatives although evacuated more than once, were spared. Sadly, so many of their neighbors were not. It's uplifting to see how people are helping one another. It will be a long time before things are normal.
Pheebs52
big-cheese
OP
OP
phrog
senior
Thanks, @Pheebs52 - I agree. Our bodies are very sensitive to stress. And, I created my own anxiety- 
- I knew the thyroid was the likely culprit, but I stirred up a huge batch of self-pity stew 'til I was satisfied the doctors believed me. It's that old mind/body connection the health gurus keep telling us about. I am so happy for your stage 3. Knocking on my table right now to protect your recovery by satisfying the jinx gods.
- I knew the thyroid was the likely culprit, but I stirred up a huge batch of self-pity stew 'til I was satisfied the doctors believed me. It's that old mind/body connection the health gurus keep telling us about. I am so happy for your stage 3. Knocking on my table right now to protect your recovery by satisfying the jinx gods.
OP
OP
phrog
senior
Today is 8 months since my surgery. My thread title seems ever more appropriate - though I mainly think the stage I'm in has only a little to do with my left knee and everything to do with the thyroid. I might just belong on a thyroid recovery board instead of this one! 
but my leg hurts and I think the complication of having these two things happen at once is interesting. Is that the right word? 
My internist says that the surgery may have triggered the thyroid, but the OS says no. I have been doing some reading about hyper-thyroid and many sites say that the trauma of a surgery can trigger the thyroid so . . .
This is my third bout with hyper thyroid (the second one resulting in hypo for three years which is why I was on Synthroid), but I remember only the weak legs from the other times. Of course, one indication of hyper-thyroid is mental confusion, so maybe all my jokes about being crazy were more accurate than I knew!
My internist has lowered my thyroid meds twice and I will see her again in a month after more blood work. The palpitations and tremors are less, though still in evidence, and my blood pressure is normal again. My legs hurt when walking or sitting extended periods. I can't stand on my left leg long enough to put my pants on. I can only ride in the car about ten minutes before it's painful when I get out. I can walk it out in several steps, but am wedded to the cane for walking more than several yards. As I sit here with my leg up, my thighs are burning. I can do stairs using alternate legs most of the time without pain, but my left leg is so weak I sometimes can't push up with it.
My OS told me to keep doing the exercise I am doing - but I read online that I should wait until the thyroid has returned to the normal range as the white blood cells are confused and attacking my quads right now. I love my water class and do not want to leave it. It is a beginning arthritis class and is not strenuous. I was swimming a few widths with a fin and kick afterward, but have stopped that as the knee hurts when I do it. I do a little water walking afterward but I think that is OK. I have stopped going to the "land" class and am doing very little at home on the bike or treadmill now.
I hope this doesn't sound too much like I am depressed. I have my days, but I know I am lucky in my ROM and the support I have at home and with my doctors. I am not really worried, but will admit to impatience. I have things to do and places to go and for the most part I am doing them (maybe just not as comfortably as I'd hoped!).
but my leg hurts and I think the complication of having these two things happen at once is interesting. Is that the right word? My internist says that the surgery may have triggered the thyroid, but the OS says no. I have been doing some reading about hyper-thyroid and many sites say that the trauma of a surgery can trigger the thyroid so . . . This is my third bout with hyper thyroid (the second one resulting in hypo for three years which is why I was on Synthroid), but I remember only the weak legs from the other times. Of course, one indication of hyper-thyroid is mental confusion, so maybe all my jokes about being crazy were more accurate than I knew!
My internist has lowered my thyroid meds twice and I will see her again in a month after more blood work. The palpitations and tremors are less, though still in evidence, and my blood pressure is normal again. My legs hurt when walking or sitting extended periods. I can't stand on my left leg long enough to put my pants on. I can only ride in the car about ten minutes before it's painful when I get out. I can walk it out in several steps, but am wedded to the cane for walking more than several yards. As I sit here with my leg up, my thighs are burning. I can do stairs using alternate legs most of the time without pain, but my left leg is so weak I sometimes can't push up with it.
My OS told me to keep doing the exercise I am doing - but I read online that I should wait until the thyroid has returned to the normal range as the white blood cells are confused and attacking my quads right now. I love my water class and do not want to leave it. It is a beginning arthritis class and is not strenuous. I was swimming a few widths with a fin and kick afterward, but have stopped that as the knee hurts when I do it. I do a little water walking afterward but I think that is OK. I have stopped going to the "land" class and am doing very little at home on the bike or treadmill now.
I hope this doesn't sound too much like I am depressed. I have my days, but I know I am lucky in my ROM and the support I have at home and with my doctors. I am not really worried, but will admit to impatience. I have things to do and places to go and for the most part I am doing them (maybe just not as comfortably as I'd hoped!).
liam2015
post-grad
hi @phrog ~ thanks for the update ~ very interesting to hear how thyroid issues can affect other areas in our bodies. good news that your blood pressure is back to normal, the palpitations and tremors less. why do you suppose your thighs are burning when your leg is elevated? what does your internist think about the exercises you are doing, including the water class? good that you have identified certain things like swimming with a fin and kicking causing pain afterwards and slowing down with the bike and treadmill at home. it's difficult to choose who to listen to, your internist or your surgeon when they have opposite opinions.
just as a comparison, my quads are also weak at times, as yours are, when going up and down stairs and i still can't do a full rotation on my bike. i wouldn't worry about using a cane still, especially since you are not only recovering from surgery, but also thyroid issues. you need to heal. it's wonderful that in spite of being uncomfortable, you are going to places you want to go and doing things you need to do. i'm glad you have support at home and with your doctors. i would want to ask your internist more about appropriate exercise while getting the thyroid medication balanced and your thyroid in control. positive thoughts and best wishes coming your way.
just as a comparison, my quads are also weak at times, as yours are, when going up and down stairs and i still can't do a full rotation on my bike. i wouldn't worry about using a cane still, especially since you are not only recovering from surgery, but also thyroid issues. you need to heal. it's wonderful that in spite of being uncomfortable, you are going to places you want to go and doing things you need to do. i'm glad you have support at home and with your doctors. i would want to ask your internist more about appropriate exercise while getting the thyroid medication balanced and your thyroid in control. positive thoughts and best wishes coming your way.
Good recap! Hopefully as your thyroid comes under control that your pain does also. As you know, I also have thyroid issues and am exploring that avenue however my PCP is off on her own medical leave right now! It is not something I wish to follow up with an urgent care clinic so I will await her return.
Keep us posted as to how things are coming along.
Keep us posted as to how things are coming along.
OP
OP
phrog
senior
Thanks @liam2015 and @Canada35 for the good wishes.
Liam, I haven't asked the internist about exercise. I don't see her again until the end of November, but I may send her an email asking how much it is OK to do. I think the burning sensation in my thighs even at rest is related to the thyroid - when I move too much or sit too still for too long, I have soreness that lasts 2-3 days. My gums are burning (seeing the dentist next week) but my internist attributed that to the thyroid, and my muscles in both legs are arms are consistently sore in a tingly/burning sort of way. There are so many symptoms! Here's one I hate: my hair is growing like crazy - but also thinning and brittle.
As someone else on here often says, pfftt! (not my word and I don't know if I spelled it right) but it does describe an "oh well, I'll live!" feeling, which is what I have. 
There's sunshine coming through my window and warming my back. It's a pretty good life.
Liam, I am so sorry you continue to have the bike problem and stair difficulty. It's hard to have that strength come and go. You are a great example of patience in dealing with what you can and can't do. I'm working on not looking back at what I could do in July and August and trying to be grateful for what I can do now.
@Canada35, how long will you primary doc be gone? I hope he/she returns soon so you know what you are dealing with. Are you having symptoms? Hope it all gets figured out quickly.
Liam, I haven't asked the internist about exercise. I don't see her again until the end of November, but I may send her an email asking how much it is OK to do. I think the burning sensation in my thighs even at rest is related to the thyroid - when I move too much or sit too still for too long, I have soreness that lasts 2-3 days. My gums are burning (seeing the dentist next week) but my internist attributed that to the thyroid, and my muscles in both legs are arms are consistently sore in a tingly/burning sort of way. There are so many symptoms! Here's one I hate: my hair is growing like crazy - but also thinning and brittle.
As someone else on here often says, pfftt! (not my word and I don't know if I spelled it right) but it does describe an "oh well, I'll live!" feeling, which is what I have. There's sunshine coming through my window and warming my back. It's a pretty good life.Liam, I am so sorry you continue to have the bike problem and stair difficulty. It's hard to have that strength come and go. You are a great example of patience in dealing with what you can and can't do. I'm working on not looking back at what I could do in July and August and trying to be grateful for what I can do now.
@Canada35, how long will you primary doc be gone? I hope he/she returns soon so you know what you are dealing with. Are you having symptoms? Hope it all gets figured out quickly.
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~ oh that darn thyroid though. i didn't know its dysfunction could cause so many symptoms. ppfftt is right! 
Pheebs52
big-cheese
Pffft! @phrog, I am not very familiar with thyroid issues but can certainly see from your posts how this negatively impacts your tkr recovery and sheesh, just about everything else in life. How long does it typically take to get the thryoid back "where it belongs?" I really had no idea just how many symptoms one could have and frankly, they all sound rather unpleasant to say the least; ugh!
Given how you feel, I can't believe you are still willing to do any exercise, so hat's off to you for persisting in finding something that'll work. Why must the right formula always be so elusive, eh? There's so much variance between individuals as to what constitutes "just enough." In your shoes, I think I'd pare it down to just one thing I really enjoy, and it sounds as though you have with water walking only? There's just something so therapeutic about a water environment and hey, you get to be with your pals; win/win.
I certainly can't prove it, but I know I've read of major surgeries triggering all sorts of other medical issues, so tend to agree with your Internist on this one.
Hang in there kiddo, better days just have to be coming soon!
Given how you feel, I can't believe you are still willing to do any exercise, so hat's off to you for persisting in finding something that'll work. Why must the right formula always be so elusive, eh? There's so much variance between individuals as to what constitutes "just enough." In your shoes, I think I'd pare it down to just one thing I really enjoy, and it sounds as though you have with water walking only? There's just something so therapeutic about a water environment and hey, you get to be with your pals; win/win.
I certainly can't prove it, but I know I've read of major surgeries triggering all sorts of other medical issues, so tend to agree with your Internist on this one.
Hang in there kiddo, better days just have to be coming soon!
OP
OP
phrog
senior
@Pheebs52, I appreciate your thoughts on the exercise - and agree that the water class will be it for exercise for the time being. I'll only do what doesn't hurt - just being in the warm water is such a help.
I'm not sure how long it will take to get my thyroid levels back to normal. The way the docs treat when the thyroid is high and the patient is taking thyroid supplements is to slowly reduce the meds until the thyroid is in the normal range. I imagine just stopping them would be a shock to the system. I'm getting tested every six weeks and see the internist each time.
I feel so much better than I did a couple of weeks ago in terms of heart palpitations and tremors in my hands - both are minor inconveniences now - and the other things like my hair, dry skin and burning gums are just nuisances at this point. Those will disappear fairly quickly when the thyroid levels are normal.
The loss of leg strength is a pain - both literally and figuratively. Four years ago it took months and months to get some strength back - and by the time I did, my knees had given out and I needed surgery. I don't know and have never asked, but I wonder if weak leg muscles can lead to the knees deteriorating due to lack of muscle strength.
Well, oh well - I can't do everything I want when I want without pain, but if I'm finding if I take it slowly, I can get some things accomplished and not let it limit me too much. So hooray!! My fabulous husband is painting the entry hall and living room and installing crown moulding. I usually would have been up and down the ladder right along with him. I haven't been able to do much, but I have painted some areas I can stand up to do, and have offered lots of encouragement and brought cups of coffee. We went shopping for a new sofa and I'm s-l-o-w-l-y working on making new curtains for the guest room. Life really is good! Thanks for your support - it means a lot. Hope your house plans are moving along and your ANK is improving. Hugs
I'm not sure how long it will take to get my thyroid levels back to normal. The way the docs treat when the thyroid is high and the patient is taking thyroid supplements is to slowly reduce the meds until the thyroid is in the normal range. I imagine just stopping them would be a shock to the system. I'm getting tested every six weeks and see the internist each time.
I feel so much better than I did a couple of weeks ago in terms of heart palpitations and tremors in my hands - both are minor inconveniences now - and the other things like my hair, dry skin and burning gums are just nuisances at this point. Those will disappear fairly quickly when the thyroid levels are normal.
The loss of leg strength is a pain - both literally and figuratively. Four years ago it took months and months to get some strength back - and by the time I did, my knees had given out and I needed surgery. I don't know and have never asked, but I wonder if weak leg muscles can lead to the knees deteriorating due to lack of muscle strength.
Well, oh well - I can't do everything I want when I want without pain, but if I'm finding if I take it slowly, I can get some things accomplished and not let it limit me too much. So hooray!! My fabulous husband is painting the entry hall and living room and installing crown moulding. I usually would have been up and down the ladder right along with him. I haven't been able to do much, but I have painted some areas I can stand up to do, and have offered lots of encouragement and brought cups of coffee. We went shopping for a new sofa and I'm s-l-o-w-l-y working on making new curtains for the guest room. Life really is good! Thanks for your support - it means a lot. Hope your house plans are moving along and your ANK is improving. Hugs
Pheebs52
big-cheese
Thanks for that explanation on how a thyroid problem is regulated @phrog! Here's hoping yours will be fairly quick to respond and you can banish those annoying and painful symptoms soon!
Oooh, redecorating sounds like a great diversion right now! By now, between the knees and the thyroid, I'm sure you have a Doctorate in pacing yourself! It sounds as though that's exactly what you're doing with some visible results and a little help from Mr. phrog!
Oooh, redecorating sounds like a great diversion right now! By now, between the knees and the thyroid, I'm sure you have a Doctorate in pacing yourself! It sounds as though that's exactly what you're doing with some visible results and a little help from Mr. phrog!
OP
OP
phrog
senior
I was just reading @Jockette 's page where Smarties are discussing whether they are glad they had the surgery. I have to say no at this point, (9 months at the end of the month) though I am not even sure the problems I am having are related to my knee surgery. I seem to be in some kind of auto-immune melt down. I will find out next week if my internist (Mita, sweet lady) has succeeded in slowing down my thyroid (I am still losing weight - not a bad thing if it weren't coming in muscle tone), but Mita now thinks I have PMR (polymyalgia rheumatica). I also in the last two weeks developed an oral autoimmune disease called lichen planus. Both legs ache, but the knee I had surgery on just plain hurts.
I have to use the cane except for in the house and for short walks from car to store. At first , Mita told me she thought the thyroid was triggered by the surgery as trauma can trigger episodes. I will ask her next week whether she still thinks that. Regardless of whether my "situation" was triggered by knee surgery or whether it was going to happen anyway, having had the surgery has complicated it. Hindsight is 20/20 as the saying goes. The good news is, though, that I am not giving in - not yet, anyway! Hubby and I are doing what we always do: working on the house, going for rides in the foothills, getting ready for holiday company. He is doing the heavier work and I am slower than slow (two weeks and still not finished making guest room curtains). I've started working one-on-one twice a month with a trainer at the senior center pool and then practicing on my own and I'm staying in the arthritis water exercise class two days a week. I cook, I clean (as little as possible! ;-) -- and I enjoy what's going on in my life. Knee-rah!
I have to use the cane except for in the house and for short walks from car to store. At first , Mita told me she thought the thyroid was triggered by the surgery as trauma can trigger episodes. I will ask her next week whether she still thinks that. Regardless of whether my "situation" was triggered by knee surgery or whether it was going to happen anyway, having had the surgery has complicated it. Hindsight is 20/20 as the saying goes. The good news is, though, that I am not giving in - not yet, anyway! Hubby and I are doing what we always do: working on the house, going for rides in the foothills, getting ready for holiday company. He is doing the heavier work and I am slower than slow (two weeks and still not finished making guest room curtains). I've started working one-on-one twice a month with a trainer at the senior center pool and then practicing on my own and I'm staying in the arthritis water exercise class two days a week. I cook, I clean (as little as possible! ;-) -- and I enjoy what's going on in my life. Knee-rah!
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