birdwatchr
graduate
Oooooohh! I think I would've brought that up! Course, hindsight is always perfect! Some people really have a lot of nerve!
TKR On the other side of surgery
- Thread starter thecoll
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dianehelen
supremo
She probably flew, since she must have been mrs superman
, total fib of a story indeed!
mamazipp
graduate
@sistersinhim
Paula, you didn't bring it up because you are a better woman than she is. What Rubbish! I hope she doesn't visit for a long, long time!
Paula, you didn't bring it up because you are a better woman than she is. What Rubbish! I hope she doesn't visit for a long, long time!
Josephine
NURSE DIRECTOR EMERITA
It's quite simple really - the swelling and the fluid in the swelling is tough to get rid of. So long as it's there, the ROM will be obstructed. That's why 'a couple of weeks' isn't really going to do anything. You'll find that 4-6 weeks will be much more likely to get results.
Yes, of course you do! It's always tough swimming up river! But do remember that all these people - including the PT - really don't know what they are talking about. Truly. They just repeat stuff they've heard elsewhere and have bought into.
I never told my surgeon at all. I had the opinion that it was my knee, my recovery and therefore my business! I suggest you avoid a confrontation and keep shtum about it!
Let me tell you this - I did no exercising whatsoever during the entirety of my recovery - both times. I recommend you read my recovery thread to see how little exercising I did for either knee! Knee recoveries UK style Parts I & II (Josephine)
Now you're talking!
I had people telling me tales like that too. On hear and I never believed them either. We call it 'the story of next-door's brother's second cousin's friend'! Like Chinese whispers, there's nary a grain of truth in it!
dianehelen
supremo
I have to agree with josephine, why tell your OS anything? My guess is he wont even mention pt or rom. If he does, just say, ya working in it. They are not in cahoots or in communication with each other. No confrontation, just civil short answers.
I called pt today, cancelled today, told them I'm out of town next week, and will call when back (ya I lied, not going back)
I called pt today, cancelled today, told them I'm out of town next week, and will call when back (ya I lied, not going back)
birdwatchr
graduate
@dianehelen
I had to do that several years back. I walked out the door without making a new appt. Therapist came running after me saying "but you didn't make your next appt!" "No. I'll have to call you next week." Never did. They hurt my neck, did nothing for my knee, and it was costing me too much. And this was after he had told me the first time I went he could do nothing for my knee (but ended up working it more than my neck) and he "thought" he could help my neck. No mention of pt for my back. Wasn't worth it to me.
I had to do that several years back. I walked out the door without making a new appt. Therapist came running after me saying "but you didn't make your next appt!" "No. I'll have to call you next week." Never did. They hurt my neck, did nothing for my knee, and it was costing me too much. And this was after he had told me the first time I went he could do nothing for my knee (but ended up working it more than my neck) and he "thought" he could help my neck. No mention of pt for my back. Wasn't worth it to me.
greatlakes
graduate
I know how confusing it can be, I struggled too. Happily my pt believes in hands off and with one exception, has done gentle stretches and exercises. That one exception, he listened to me and stopped. Not sure more advice is helpful, so will only say it is YOUR knee, and with so little clear science, you need to just pay attention to what is and isn't working for you. Best wishes, Colleen.
Yes, don't say anything about it. My OS gave me the prescription, but I never went. When I went back a month later he asked me how it was going with PT and I said fine. Not really a lie because I did my own PT! He never knew the difference. I went back for another appointment with the OS and he was thrilled with my ROM! So, again, he never knew. Don't say a thing, just going along with it with him. You can say like I did, that PT is going fine.
FlaGranny
graduate
My OS asked me about PT today and I told him the truth - I'm doing it myself and that I couldn't afford the copays for outpatient PT. He was fine with it and said I was doing well. Sometimes I think the docs are afraid that a patient will do nothing and that's why they want you to go to PT.
skigirl
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I never fight with doctors---I regard them as partners in my health care---but really, I am in charge. A TKR is elective surgery---which means, I chose the surgery after getting advice--some of it from the doctor.
Most doctors have not idea what happens during PT---the ones who tell you they are going to call your doctor are lying. I can barely get in to my doctor's office myself---how many calls from a PT do you think he takes each day?
Many PTs were trained 10 years ago when aggressive PT was the norm. Now, however, it is fairly obvious that anything that makes the knee swell more is counterproductive. I may not have a MD, but I do have common sense. If your knee is swollen, it simply cannot bend. If the PT is making your swell more---it is not helping you at all.
You don't Owe anything to those you work with---indeed you might see yourself as someone who teaches them a few things. So--first, no one---even a co worker can do anything to you that you do not want. So, simply say, I do not want you to bend my knee like that. Or yell STOP---really, they have to stop, it is the law.
Think about this---would you allow someone to hit you in the shoulder with a baseball bat? No---even if they told you it would help your frozen shoulder? No, of course not. So, why would you allow someone to batter your knee with aggressive PT? You don't need to stop PT---you need to stop aggressive PT. If you feel compelled to go to PT, just lay down the law about how it will be conducted. They will not resent you---they will admire you for being assertive about your own care.
Most of all, know that there is no "window" of rom. It will come when you stop allowing people to batter it!! Here is an article from our library that show you the direction that doctors are going towards.
In-Patient Rehab Not Always Needed After TKR
Most doctors have not idea what happens during PT---the ones who tell you they are going to call your doctor are lying. I can barely get in to my doctor's office myself---how many calls from a PT do you think he takes each day?
Many PTs were trained 10 years ago when aggressive PT was the norm. Now, however, it is fairly obvious that anything that makes the knee swell more is counterproductive. I may not have a MD, but I do have common sense. If your knee is swollen, it simply cannot bend. If the PT is making your swell more---it is not helping you at all.
You don't Owe anything to those you work with---indeed you might see yourself as someone who teaches them a few things. So--first, no one---even a co worker can do anything to you that you do not want. So, simply say, I do not want you to bend my knee like that. Or yell STOP---really, they have to stop, it is the law.
Think about this---would you allow someone to hit you in the shoulder with a baseball bat? No---even if they told you it would help your frozen shoulder? No, of course not. So, why would you allow someone to batter your knee with aggressive PT? You don't need to stop PT---you need to stop aggressive PT. If you feel compelled to go to PT, just lay down the law about how it will be conducted. They will not resent you---they will admire you for being assertive about your own care.
Most of all, know that there is no "window" of rom. It will come when you stop allowing people to batter it!! Here is an article from our library that show you the direction that doctors are going towards.
In-Patient Rehab Not Always Needed After TKR
OP
OP
thecoll
member
Had my 6 week post op today. As I was anticipating my OS was not satisfied with my bend. First he briefly looked at my knee and very gently touched it. Then he had me hang my leg off the table and he went over all the questions my husband and I had. Then told me just by looking at my hanging leg that my ROM was not sufficient. He never checked the ROM and never mentioned that he even reviewed the PT notes. Then comes the talk about a manipulation. I asked him how many he has done this year and he said " I am sure you already ran my OR reports to find out". Of course I had but wanted to hear it from him. He has not done a manipulation in over 3 1/2 years. Then he said he has only done a total of 3 in 4 years. He said broken bones, torn muscles can happen during a MUA. Then he bent my leg way back and I about fell off the exam table, grabbed his shoulder. He said I will have to do PT 5 days a week, push thru the pain of PT which will help break up scar tissue then see me back in 2 weeks. He said with hard work he has no doubt I will get there. He said I did have some slight swelling which has approved in the past week. I was not released to work from home as he said my job for the next two weeks is to work all day every day on my bending. He also suggested I take 800mg of Ibuprofen twice a day which will help with inflammation thus assist PT with breaking up scar tissue. I knew what he was going to say so it was not upsetting to me. Last thing I asked is if he has seen any other knee at this point be able to get to 90 in two weeks and he said obviously as he has not done a manipulation in 3 1/2 years. So I left and then went to the desk and canceled my PT appt that was scheduled right after my OS visit. Instead I came home and did my exercises a couple times this afternoon.
I have my work cut out for me but I will do my best to get to 90 by my next appt on Oct 7th. My husband said even if I get it to 85 still will not do a MUA. Here's to a great weekend.
I have my work cut out for me but I will do my best to get to 90 by my next appt on Oct 7th. My husband said even if I get it to 85 still will not do a MUA. Here's to a great weekend.
dianehelen
supremo
Ughhh I do not like your OS. So, are you going to cancel pt and just try to do your own living pt at home? I so dont want you to be suffering and pushing yourself for 5 days a week pt. I feel so bad for what you are going thru and hope you take some time to really think about what is best for you.
skigirl
Former BoneSmart staff member
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It is ironic really---bend is something you cannot work to get. You have to not work, and elevate your leg so that the swelling goes down. Why not try this. Take the weekend off, spend most of your time in bed with the knee propped up on three pillows. Walk only to the bathroom or kitchen---no Pt, No exercises. take it easy, watch movies, do something fun.
Then, after three days, see how your knee feels---Better??? then your question is answered. Worse? well, you are no worse off!!!
Elevating your leg to control swelling and pain
Using ice
Then, after three days, see how your knee feels---Better??? then your question is answered. Worse? well, you are no worse off!!!
Elevating your leg to control swelling and pain
Using ice
Oh honey, your OS is so old school. You will not get more ROM. You will get less. The more you work your knee hard, the more swelling you are going to get. Can you bend it when it's swollen, of course not. It's way too tight to bend. Please go through and read Josephine's both recoveries. And then read many others that don't do any PT or painful exercising. You will see that we do much better than those that do aggressive therapy. Give yourself two weeks off from all exercises to give your tissues time to heal and the swelling to go down. What do are doing is not working so try something different. You will NOT lose the ROM you have now, so why not try it. Then cancel your appointment with your OS until you are bending better. You know your knee better than anyone else. You OS knows the implant and surgery, but he doesn't know the rehab. That's obvious with what he told you to do now. You are in many of our prayers. Please use common sense and don't hurt your knee any more than it already is.
KarriB
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I'm sorry the OS appt went as you anticipated. I think Kelly's idea is brilliant and may just be the spa weekend your knee needs. I know you've backed off pt before, but thus time try doing nothing to see how the knee responds.
dianehelen
supremo
@sistersinhim so well stated. I really feel so bad for Colleen, caught between what bone smart knows works and what her OS is advised. It's sad that these doctors dont/wont update their thinking with some real world experiences
@dianehelen, I, too feel really bad for her. It has been proven over and over again that aggressive PT slows down recovery and ROM, but many OSs just stick to the old way. I'm so thankful that my OS pretty much left me on my own. He never mentioned that I didn't take any PT. He saw my success without it! I hope Colleen will do some more internet research and see what the new and improved way of rehabbing a tkr is!
