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TKR New here - post op Day 6 and uncontrolled pain

Hi just to add my two cents, when I came home from the hospital my second Pt visit had me in severe pain for a few days. I then put Pt on hold for 2 weeks, and took all the advice from my BoneSmart friends and rested, elevated iced and just did some walking around my house and bathroom trips. It made all the difference and I only did Pt 1time a week after that and never let the Therapist push my knee or touch it, I’m happy to say I‘m healing nicely. Prayers that your recovery goes smoother.
 
I will just add to the chorus that PT should not hurt. Also, you are so early in recovery that rest/ice and elevation are the most important to get the swelling down over any PT or ridiculous expectations of what you should be able to do. The knee decides what we can do and when and the only way to get there is to heal first and keep the swelling down and healing takes time.
 
Sometimes the quads take a bit longer go get going. My PT basically told me that once you can lift your leg at all (even millimeters) you're on your way.
 
I had another PT today and it was terribly painful. I was told that I only have 80 degree bend in my knee, 85 with someone else pushing on it but it hurts like crazy. She said I could have some scar tissue preventing it from bending more. How long does it take for scar tissue to form enough to prevent you from bending the knee?
 
So often our medical teams blame ”scar tissue” incorrectly, when the culprit is swelling. Stop doing anything that hurts and don’t let your PT bend/straighten your knee at all, they often push it way past your pain level.

Painful PT is not necessary and is bad for you. It slows down your healing. All you need are regular gentle movements to keep the knee joint mobile.
 
Hi Spring. To answer your question how long does it take for scar tissue to form, there's no sensible answer other than it rarely does (other than what is needed to heal)
Your PT seems to have it in her head that forcing the bend is the only way to get a decent ROM, and that flies in the face of virtually every one here. This approach is very old fashioned, and has the threat that if it isn't successful, she will want you to have an MUA which is aimed at tearing apart the scar tissue (which probably doesn't exist) and damage your knee even more.
Sadly, you have a choice of which path you take, your PT's or the Bonesmart way. I know which I would do, I've done it twice.

But also remember you can try our way for a while then revert at a future time to the brutal way.
 
I was blessed to have a surgeon that never pushed PT. He gave me a prescription for it, which I threw away and never went. When I went for my 3 return checkups, all he wanted was to see what my knee would do. Never one question about PT! Of course, he knew I was a single lady that had to take care of myself, so obviously he trusted that I would not be just laying around all the time.

After 12 knee surgeries, I know that I do not need PT, and neither does anyone else if they do their own daily activities. My knee recovered just fine all on its own with only my daily activities. I didn't have the terrible swelling or agonizing pain that so many have after taking formal PT either. I knew the Bonesmart way worked before Bonesmart was even thought of. My surgeries started in the early 80s and I never went to PT even back then. I just didn't see the need for it. Bonesmart was formed around 2004. By then I had already had 6 knee surgeries and rehabbed the Bonesmart way!
 
I had another PT today and it was terribly painful. I was told that I only have 80 degree bend in my knee, 85 with someone else pushing on it but it hurts like crazy. She said I could have some scar tissue preventing it from bending more. How long does it take for scar tissue to form enough to prevent you from bending the knee?
This PT has the wrong approach to your knee's recovery.
For goodness' sake - and the sake of your knee - stop letting her torture your knee. Don't let her touch it again. It's not scar tissue forming that is preventing your knee from bending - it's swelling caused by her rough treatment of your knee.

The "scar tissue" she's talkin about is more correctly known as adhesions and they don't form this early in recovery. But, if you continue to allow your knee to be mistreated, you are going to be more likely to form these adhesions, because they grow in a knee that is overworked and inflamed.

Did you read this?
There's no need to rush to get ROM (Range of Motion) because it can continue to improve for a year, or even much longer, after a knee replacement. There isn't any deadline you have to meet:
Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR


It's not exercising that gets you your ROM - it's time. Time to recover, time for swelling and pain to settle, and time to heal. Your knee has the potential to achieve good ROM right from the start, but it's prevented from doing so by swelling and pain. As it heals and the swelling goes down, your ROM (both flexion and extension) will gradually increase.
 
Adhesions and scar tissue are two different things. Used correctly, the term scarring refers to the stuff that heals your wounds whether it's a surgical incision or a small cut with a kitchen knife. That is necessary to close your wound. Adhesions are excess fibrous tissue that stick muscles, tendons and ligaments down so they can't move the way they should. It look something like this

[Bonesmart.org] New here - post op Day 6 and uncontrolled pain


Obviously the scarring is necessary and if it doesn't develop, you'd be in trouble with a permanently open wound!
But adhesions are abnormal and actually relatively uncommon. They occur a lot less frequently than 'professionals' would have you believe. But so long as they can convince patients of this 'inevitable' demon, they will get compliant patients! That's the philosophy! Don't fall for it.
 
Please do not let them force your knee to bend and hurt you. This is abusive.

I have two successful knees with no one pushing on it and minimal exercise/PT especially with the second. Your knee needs to heal first.

The most important thing is to keep it elevated and iced as much as possible - for me this was any time I was not walking. Getting that swelling down will help you feel better and help your knee to bend.
 
I appreciate the info. Thanks!
 
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You have not doomed your recovery at all. :console2:

Many of us can’t lift our leg at less than 2 weeks after surgery, I certainly couldn’t. It was several weeks before I could. If trying causes you so much pain, stop trying, the pain is just stressing your leg, which is not helping it heal. As your leg heals, you will be able to lift it. I didnt work on it and all of a sudden one day I could do it.

Not all doctors order a CPM machine because using it or not makes no difference to a good recovery. It’s just each doctor’s opinion about it.

The paperwork I was sent home with says that I should be doing a ton of things by Day 10 that I cannot possibly do.
Put that paper in a drawer, in a room far away, and forget about it. It is some ideal goal that doesn’t apply to most people and it’s only upsetting you, which isn’t good for your recovery.

You are going to be fine. Try to relax and let your body heal.

Regaining our ROM and strength is more about Time than repetitions of a list of exercises.

Time to recover.
Time for pain and swelling to settle.
Time to heal.

Our range of motion is right there all
along just waiting for that to happen so it can show itself.

In the general run of things, it doesn't need to be fought for, worked hard for or worried about. It will happen. Normal activity is the key to success.
 
@spring7799,
You have log leg, it occurs after joint replacement, and will improve with healing. Practice doing quad sets in bed, press your knees down against the bed to activate your quads.

CPM machine
Use of a CPM machine has no effect on eventual ROM, and most doctors no longer prescribe them.
The nurse took it off because she thought you already had decent ROM.

Sounds like your PT is overworking your knee, when what your knee needs right now is time to heal, time for the swelling and inflammation to go down and for your ROM to reveal it self.
it is very easy to set your recovery back by doing too much too soon.
Saying no to therapy - am I allowed to?

Here are some gentle activities you can do to increase your ROM.
Heel slides and how to do them and Extension: how to estimate it and ways to improve it .
The rest of the time you should be Resting, Icing, Elevating, and Medicating on schedule as prescribed.
 
@spring7799 .... it's pretty clear that at this point you are upset and fearful for your knee. I'm so sorry and I'm sending you a giant virtual ((((HUG)))).

It sounds like your therapists have been pushing you more than your body is ready for and possibly even scaring you with hints that something dire will happen if you don't reach these goals by some specific time. Are they mentioning a "window of opportunity" where if you don't get to a certain range of motion your knee will never get there? I hope not, because that is just not true.

Since what you've been doing hasn't worked too well for you so far, I have a suggestion. Let's take a different approach and see what happens. Try what your fellow BoneSmarties have suggested and drastically scale back or cancel your therapy. Stop trying so hard to work your knee. Let it rest and settle for at least a week with only gentle bends and stretches that you control several times a day plus your normal movement around your house during the day. Ice as much as you can - not just the 20 minutes that is sometimes recommended by medical staff. Just be sure you have a towel between the ice source and you so that you don't damage your skin. Since you are only taking one 5mg tablet of your prescription pain medication every 6 hours (that's a VERY low dose!), ask your surgeon if it's okay for you to add one 500mg Extra Strength Tylenol when you take your pain meds every 6 hours. Most people do just fine taking this amount of Tylenol when trying to recover from a joint replacement. The main issue would be if you have any kidney problems, as Tylenol is processed through the kidneys, so that's why I'm recommending you talk with your doctor about the extra acetaminophen (the active ingredient in Tylenol).

I think you will find this approach will be much easier on both you and your knee. You have nothing to lose by giving it a try and everything to gain. I know it's frustrating when you feel like you're going against the advice of your medical team who is supposed to have all the answers. But....sometimes they don't. Every person's body reacts to surgery differently and heals on its own schedule. When you have this level of uncontrollable pain, it's your body's signal that it's not ready yet for the activity and exercise you're trying to have it do. Please listen to your body.....it's the best measure ever of what you need to be doing or not doing. You should not be experiencing pain levels more than just mild discomfort on a regular basis and that's not going to get better if you keep doing things that put you in pain.

Hang in there. We are on your side and a lot of our BoneSmarties have actually been through what you're experiencing. I hope you decide to give our suggestions a try.
 
Thank you, everyone! I'm afraid I went back and removed my message when I was a bit zonked out from medication and on an emotional roller coaster. I appreciate the answers before I did that! :)
 
The emotional rollercoaster is also part of this recovery, this article is in our Recovery Guidelines. There are other helpful articles, when you feel up to it, go back and read them again, especially the one about the window of opportunity. These are on the first page of your thread, in post #2.
 
As patients, we naturally assume our medical professionals know what's best for us, and know every detail of the recovery process. But, the truth is, while most are there because they want to help others, many of their processes are outdated at best, and very wrong and harmful at worst. Every patient is different, and heals at a different rate. Heck, two knees on the same person heal at different rates! Only the patient actually knows what is helpful and what is harming us because we are the ones living with the result of the surgery, PT, and so on. Only we see our knees swell excessively after an aggressive PT session. Only we feel the new pain that comes after a PT session that was more than our knees were ready for. Trying to generalize recovery stages for everyone is counter-productive and can be, IMHO, very harmful to patients.

Instead of giving time frames for recovery steps, it would be much more helpful if surgeons, and others, gave their patients info about recovery stages, but no timelines. Instead, they need to say things like, "At first your knee will be stiff, until the swelling goes down". Or, "You will most likely be unable to lift your leg at first, but at some point in the first weeks you'll find it just happens and you'll lift your leg again without trying. Until that time, don't stress as it's a very normal part of the surgery and recovery". Or, "Your ROM will be low at first, but over time will improve as your knee heals and the swelling reduces".
These are all helpful statements, and allow for the individuality of recovery while not stressing out patients with deadlines and threats.

As for PT, it's YOUR body and YOUR recovery and only you have the right to decide how it will go. Others may make suggestions, but no one; not your surgeon, your PT, your spouse, your family, or anyone else, has the right to tell you how it will go or what you will do. Just because your surgeon fixed your knee does not mean he now owns your knee. This doesn't mean that others won't have helpful suggestions, it means that YOU, and only YOU, make the decision as to what you will and won't do during recovery. And your knee will loudly let you know what it's ready for, if you will listen to it.

If PT is causing you more pain and/or swelling, then it's your knee telling you it's not ready for that activity yet, so back off and re-visit it at a later time. IME, PTs are a mixed bag; some are great and follow a process that leaves you and your knee in charge, without causing any more pain and swelling. But too many are overly aggressive, and insist on being in control of YOUR body and YOUR recovery, using pressure, threats and intimidation. My suggestion is to either find one of the former, or stop formal PT altogether and just do the ADLs.
 
@spring7799 ..... I can reinstate your post, if you'd like.....

Those pesky meds can make us do all sorts of things....:heehee:
 
Latest update: After pushing and stretching for hours each day, I was able to get to 90 degrees. When I saw PT, she had me doing harder stretches and was happy. I felt such relief and like I turned a corner that day, but the next morning, knee was swollen so much that I couldn't bend or straighten it much at all .

It appears that stretching to the point where you make progress causes you to swell so much (even with ice and elevation!) that you lose that progress entirely. It's feels like you end up right where you started after all the hard work.

I'm guessing I'm looking at a small time frame so overall, I am probably making more progress than I think, but how much swelling after PT is normal? They want to ice it as soon as I'm done each session so it seems they expect you to have swelling.
 

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