TKR I'm back again
- Thread starter Dolphin5
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Hi all. Just a couple of quick questions...... I've noticed my knee is warm to the touch. I'm not sure how long it's been like this. Is this normal or should I contact my GP?
My GP has agreed to me having an x-ray on the knee which I'll arrange today or tomorrow.
I'm wondering whether I should ask to see a different consultant for an opinion. I saw my surgeon about a month ago. I'd seek to see a different one at the hospital on the island.
Also, is lymphatic drainage best done with a brush rather than hands?
That's three questions .
I'm hope you've all had a good weekend.
My GP has agreed to me having an x-ray on the knee which I'll arrange today or tomorrow.
I'm wondering whether I should ask to see a different consultant for an opinion. I saw my surgeon about a month ago. I'd seek to see a different one at the hospital on the island.
Also, is lymphatic drainage best done with a brush rather than hands?
That's three questions .
I'm hope you've all had a good weekend.
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Hello and Happy Monday Dolphin!
The increased blood flow to the area results in the warmth. Swelling and redness are often experienced also. As the healing process progresses, the warmth, swelling and redness dissipate.
Is there a reason why you want to meet with a different consultant?
I'll tag @CricketHip to answer your question as there may be pros and cons to both hands (manual lymphatic drainage) and dry brushing.
I hope you have a good week!
This can go on for months, even up to a full year post op.
The increased blood flow to the area results in the warmth. Swelling and redness are often experienced also. As the healing process progresses, the warmth, swelling and redness dissipate.
Is there a reason why you want to meet with a different consultant?
I'll tag @CricketHip to answer your question as there may be pros and cons to both hands (manual lymphatic drainage) and dry brushing.
I hope you have a good week!
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Good morning, well here in the USA, that is.. 
@Dolphin5
You recently asked about hands on MLD vs dry brushing.
Dry is good for reaching the lower legs.. again it is a gentle flicking of the brush against the skin when doing it.
Hands on is absolutely vital for the abdominal portion, you actually want to use more pressure in that area.. the lymph nodes are deep inside the abdomen.
I would suggest using both methods.. but it boils down to which one you are more inclined to do on a regular basis.. Neither technique is great IF you don't use them.
If you dry brush, just please remember to do some of the deep breathing techniques with the abdominal hand compressions first, then happy brushing.!!
I hope this helps!
Warmth around that new knee can be a sign of active healing. Our bodies increase the inflammation to heal the tissues. MLD is good to help ease it and keep it at healthy levels.
Happy 3 month anniversary!! I bet you begin to see more positive changes during the next 3 months.
@Dolphin5You recently asked about hands on MLD vs dry brushing.
Dry is good for reaching the lower legs.. again it is a gentle flicking of the brush against the skin when doing it.
Hands on is absolutely vital for the abdominal portion, you actually want to use more pressure in that area.. the lymph nodes are deep inside the abdomen.
I would suggest using both methods.. but it boils down to which one you are more inclined to do on a regular basis.. Neither technique is great IF you don't use them.
If you dry brush, just please remember to do some of the deep breathing techniques with the abdominal hand compressions first, then happy brushing.!!
I hope this helps!
Warmth around that new knee can be a sign of active healing. Our bodies increase the inflammation to heal the tissues. MLD is good to help ease it and keep it at healthy levels.
Happy 3 month anniversary!! I bet you begin to see more positive changes during the next 3 months.
@Dolphin5 I scrolled up and just read your reply in regards to the lymph node removal and radiation therapy.
That had to be very difficult but it is working for you and that is so important.
Doing the MLD twice a day will be enough. Especially now that you know that it's important to walk and move daily. That helps your body assimilate that extra fluid, too.
Since you've had the breast cancer treatments, you would definitely benefit from the light chest tapping on your chest and along your clavicular region. That would be along your collarbones over to where the attach to your shoulders.
Again a very light tapping and for at least a minute or two.. just set a timer and lie back and enjoy it,, it should feel pretty relaxing.
By tapping, it's best to use the pads of your fingers and not just the fingertips.. this is done by having your palms horizontal to the area you will be tapping on then kind of drumming your fingers.
Oh, I hope this makes sense! So pleased that you feel a difference by addressing this yourself.. if you can find a licensed massage therapist trained in the full certification in MLD, that would be beneficial for you to do.
Maybe once or twice a month if that's doable. Just for your general health and well being from what you've been though and not just for your knee.
That had to be very difficult but it is working for you and that is so important.
Doing the MLD twice a day will be enough. Especially now that you know that it's important to walk and move daily. That helps your body assimilate that extra fluid, too.
Since you've had the breast cancer treatments, you would definitely benefit from the light chest tapping on your chest and along your clavicular region. That would be along your collarbones over to where the attach to your shoulders.
Again a very light tapping and for at least a minute or two.. just set a timer and lie back and enjoy it,, it should feel pretty relaxing.
By tapping, it's best to use the pads of your fingers and not just the fingertips.. this is done by having your palms horizontal to the area you will be tapping on then kind of drumming your fingers.
Oh, I hope this makes sense! So pleased that you feel a difference by addressing this yourself.. if you can find a licensed massage therapist trained in the full certification in MLD, that would be beneficial for you to do.
Maybe once or twice a month if that's doable. Just for your general health and well being from what you've been though and not just for your knee.
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Thank you CricketHip for explaining in detail about the MLD.
I'm not sure about the happy 3 month anniversary. I'm steadier walking and the pain/discomfort are bearable. BUT my ROM is EXACTLY the same as 3 months 4 days ago. No difference at all. I remember the exact day as I got into my car the day after I was home from hospital which was exactly 4 days post op. Two days ago getting in and out of my car is exactly the same. Very, very difficult.
I've come to the conclusion that my new knee needs to be done again. Unfortunately it's a failure. It's actually 3 months, one week today since the op. My ROM is 45o. I've tried everything, I've done everything......
I'm not sure about the happy 3 month anniversary. I'm steadier walking and the pain/discomfort are bearable. BUT my ROM is EXACTLY the same as 3 months 4 days ago. No difference at all. I remember the exact day as I got into my car the day after I was home from hospital which was exactly 4 days post op. Two days ago getting in and out of my car is exactly the same. Very, very difficult.
I've come to the conclusion that my new knee needs to be done again. Unfortunately it's a failure. It's actually 3 months, one week today since the op. My ROM is 45o. I've tried everything, I've done everything......
@Dolphin5 … you may feel like your knee has failed, but it is too soon at 3 months to make that determination and you’ll not find a surgeon who would agree to do a revision. So, the better thing to do is to give your body some grace in the next 3-6 months and allow it to try and heal on its own terms. I’m pretty sure that if you went to a doctor and had an X-ray, you’d find that the implant is just fine. That means your bending issues are soft tissue related. That is never something requiring a revision. If you have reached an impasse with additional ROM, a Manipulation Under Anesthesia (MUA) might help. But that’s for you and your doctor to decide.
You just came off what sounded like it was going to be an exhausting weekend with your family and friends. Now that you’re back home, the best course of action would be to continue the walks and gentle exercises you were doing before the party. You still need lots of ice and elevation time and that will likely help as well. It’s not surprising that you wouldn’t make gains in ROM due to the increased activity that was likely during your family visit.
You just came off what sounded like it was going to be an exhausting weekend with your family and friends. Now that you’re back home, the best course of action would be to continue the walks and gentle exercises you were doing before the party. You still need lots of ice and elevation time and that will likely help as well. It’s not surprising that you wouldn’t make gains in ROM due to the increased activity that was likely during your family visit.
Oh @Dolphin5 I was so sad to read your latest post. Please don't get discouraged. If another Dr.'s opinion would help to ease your worries (or confirm them), then maybe try to find another doctor. I'm guessing that it might be difficult to find a Ortho Dr. that will step in at only 3 months, though. I hope that I am wrong about that.
I really meant it when I said that I bet you see a good many positive changes over the next three months..
this recovery takes tons and tons of patience. Hang in there, try to rest and relax as much as you can to recover from your busy weekend.
I hope the remainder of this week is wonderful to you!!
I really meant it when I said that I bet you see a good many positive changes over the next three months..
this recovery takes tons and tons of patience. Hang in there, try to rest and relax as much as you can to recover from your busy weekend.
I hope the remainder of this week is wonderful to you!!
Hi, thank you for your messages. The long weekend was actually not too exhausting. The evening of my party, apart from meeting and greeting, I did some dancing, but fairly gently, and the rest of the time had my leg up on a stool when I was sitting. The Sunday BBQ I had my leg elevated for a couple of hours on a lounger til it started to rain (typical British weather ), when I went in and sat with my leg on a stool.
My despondency comes from the fact that despite EVERYTHING I've done, nothing has made any difference. If I'd increased to 50o I'd have the patience and the determination to keep going but there has been zilch improvement. Nothing. Nowt.
I rang the surgery yesterday 8am to ask for a tel appt. When I told the receptionist it was for ongoing problems with my knee and I wanted to get a referral to see a consultant she flatly refused me saying I had to have an appt with the musculoskeletal practitioner. 10 May. I pleaded saying I needed to speak to a doctor but she was unrelenting. I even said 'well perhaps I'll just take a bottle of tablets then' and she said she was going to end the call as others were waiting. This just finished me off. Crying. I rang mental health on 111 and a GP rang me back, she said my GP/a consultant would want to see the results of an x-ray first, which I was having done that morning. She said she'd ring the surgery to make a face to face appt for me with my GP in two weeks time.
My concern is how long will it actually take to see a consultant? Months? I just want to get the ball rolling, and get into the queue. I cannot take much more of this. I'm tired and just want some support from my doctor.
There's something not right about my knee. It's as stiff and unrelenting now as it was just after the op. I don't want to be doing this for another 3 months with no improvement and still need to see a consultant. So yesterday I did nothing apart from ice several times. I was going to take my dogs out, first time, and blow the consequences. I didn't but am planning to do so today. I have to for my mental health.
You must have had others on here who had failed TKR? At which stage did they realise and how long before they had a revision?
After my recent blip lasting 5 days I was so sure I wouldn't have another one but here I am again in a not good way, though not as bad as recently. I was fine until the receptionist yesterday wouldn't book me a tel appt. Until reading your posts I'd intended to ring again today and say I think my knee is infected just to get an appt, but this time a face to face. Now I'm not sure what to do. But surely I'm entitled to see a doctor even if only to get some moral support and reassurance.......
The radiographer told me yesterday that whilst my GP won't get the results of the x-ray for a couple of weeks, if I ring the hospital where I had the op, they'll be able to see the results today.
My despondency comes from the fact that despite EVERYTHING I've done, nothing has made any difference. If I'd increased to 50o I'd have the patience and the determination to keep going but there has been zilch improvement. Nothing. Nowt.
I rang the surgery yesterday 8am to ask for a tel appt. When I told the receptionist it was for ongoing problems with my knee and I wanted to get a referral to see a consultant she flatly refused me saying I had to have an appt with the musculoskeletal practitioner. 10 May. I pleaded saying I needed to speak to a doctor but she was unrelenting. I even said 'well perhaps I'll just take a bottle of tablets then' and she said she was going to end the call as others were waiting. This just finished me off. Crying. I rang mental health on 111 and a GP rang me back, she said my GP/a consultant would want to see the results of an x-ray first, which I was having done that morning. She said she'd ring the surgery to make a face to face appt for me with my GP in two weeks time.
My concern is how long will it actually take to see a consultant? Months? I just want to get the ball rolling, and get into the queue. I cannot take much more of this. I'm tired and just want some support from my doctor.
There's something not right about my knee. It's as stiff and unrelenting now as it was just after the op. I don't want to be doing this for another 3 months with no improvement and still need to see a consultant. So yesterday I did nothing apart from ice several times. I was going to take my dogs out, first time, and blow the consequences. I didn't but am planning to do so today. I have to for my mental health.
You must have had others on here who had failed TKR? At which stage did they realise and how long before they had a revision?
After my recent blip lasting 5 days I was so sure I wouldn't have another one but here I am again in a not good way, though not as bad as recently. I was fine until the receptionist yesterday wouldn't book me a tel appt. Until reading your posts I'd intended to ring again today and say I think my knee is infected just to get an appt, but this time a face to face. Now I'm not sure what to do. But surely I'm entitled to see a doctor even if only to get some moral support and reassurance.......
The radiographer told me yesterday that whilst my GP won't get the results of the x-ray for a couple of weeks, if I ring the hospital where I had the op, they'll be able to see the results today.
Stiffness in your knee is not a reason for a revision. Stiffness in your knee is not a failed TKR. It indicates soft tissue problems, not a problem with the implant. You are only 3 months into your recovery and IF there is a problem with your knee because of adhesions, you may be a candidate for an MUA. Only a doctor can say that for sure.
You didn’t do yourself any favors by threatening to take a bottle of pills. Likewise it is not a good idea to say you think you have an infection when you don’t have any symptoms of that. These people are experienced and they will know that’s not the case from the answers you provide to their initial questions. You need to be honest about your concerns.
I’m glad you contacted your mental health organization and I hope they can help you talk to someone who can explain all this to you. You cannot dictate the terms of your recovery. Your body will heal in its own time.
You certainly are entitled to talk to someone about your concerns. But you must know that the NHS does not work quickly unless you are having a life threatening emergency. This is not an emergency. You may have a wait to have a face-to-face meeting or even a teleconference. You can call the hospital and they may have the results, but I sincerely doubt anyone will discuss them with you over the phone since you’d be talking with administrative staff and not a doctor. Please try to be patient and work with your healthcare system.
Rest and icing your knee is good. But if you’re not getting up and walking around for 5 minutes or so every hour and also doing gentle bend and stretch exercises throughout the day, it makes sense that your joint will stiffen up from the inactivity. Don’t be tempted to push your knee with activity that is beyond what you’re ready for. If you’ve not walked your dogs at this point, you probably just need to take a short walk on your own. Doing more than you’re ready for will just cause more swelling and stiffness.
You didn’t do yourself any favors by threatening to take a bottle of pills. Likewise it is not a good idea to say you think you have an infection when you don’t have any symptoms of that. These people are experienced and they will know that’s not the case from the answers you provide to their initial questions. You need to be honest about your concerns.
I’m glad you contacted your mental health organization and I hope they can help you talk to someone who can explain all this to you. You cannot dictate the terms of your recovery. Your body will heal in its own time.
You certainly are entitled to talk to someone about your concerns. But you must know that the NHS does not work quickly unless you are having a life threatening emergency. This is not an emergency. You may have a wait to have a face-to-face meeting or even a teleconference. You can call the hospital and they may have the results, but I sincerely doubt anyone will discuss them with you over the phone since you’d be talking with administrative staff and not a doctor. Please try to be patient and work with your healthcare system.
Rest and icing your knee is good. But if you’re not getting up and walking around for 5 minutes or so every hour and also doing gentle bend and stretch exercises throughout the day, it makes sense that your joint will stiffen up from the inactivity. Don’t be tempted to push your knee with activity that is beyond what you’re ready for. If you’ve not walked your dogs at this point, you probably just need to take a short walk on your own. Doing more than you’re ready for will just cause more swelling and stiffness.
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Hello Dolphin, It sounds like you're feeling let down again and I'm sorry you're going through this. Just remember, even when it feels like things won't improve, they still can. You made it through your last "blip", as you described it, and there's always hope, even if it doesn't feel like it right now.
Measuring range of motion is not an exact science. Those tools have limitations. There can be inconsistency in placement each time, swelling can affect measurements and human error is also possible. Pain may limit how far you're willing to move the joint and fear in doing so can skew measurements. Different people may measure slightly differently. ROM changes from day to day.
Please don't assume you have an infection without lab work. Telling your OS's support team that you think you have an infection won't move your appointment up. They have protocol to follow and unless there are clear clinical signs, they can't / won't bump you ahead of others. There is always urgent care if you feel your situation is that dire and you cannot wait.
I think the idea of getting outdoors for a short walk in the fresh air, taking in the sounds of nature and feeling the warmth of the sun, if it's out, will likely help your outlook. Taking the dogs right now is probably not a good idea. Possibly your neighbor / walking partner will accompany you. Hopefully with some icing, elevation and fresh air, your day will feel brighter.
Best Wishes!
You noted that "despite EVERYTHING I've done, nothing has made any difference. If I'd increased to 50o I'd have the patience and the determination to keep going."
Measuring range of motion is not an exact science. Those tools have limitations. There can be inconsistency in placement each time, swelling can affect measurements and human error is also possible. Pain may limit how far you're willing to move the joint and fear in doing so can skew measurements. Different people may measure slightly differently. ROM changes from day to day.
Slow progress does not mean your knee needs to be revised. It can take months and progress isn't always straightforward. Pain, swelling and muscle tightness can restrict motion and that doesn't have to mean your TKR is a failure. You can still have a successful outcome. Only a qualified person can determine if your knee has failed. Your lack of ROM likely indicates you need to adjust any therapy and continue to address pain and swelling.
Please don't assume you have an infection without lab work. Telling your OS's support team that you think you have an infection won't move your appointment up. They have protocol to follow and unless there are clear clinical signs, they can't / won't bump you ahead of others. There is always urgent care if you feel your situation is that dire and you cannot wait.
I am not understanding why you'd do this if you feel it will have a negative effect. I hear that you're hurting, but threatening to hurt yourself isn't a healthy or safe way to get support. I get that waiting for appointments feels frustrating, and it isn't ideal, but turning down appointments, or arguing about the timing, isn't going to help things move faster for you. Sometimes the best option is to take what you're offered and stay on their list in case something opens up sooner. It's not about settling, but keeping the process moving. Again, there is 111 for emergencies.
I think the idea of getting outdoors for a short walk in the fresh air, taking in the sounds of nature and feeling the warmth of the sun, if it's out, will likely help your outlook. Taking the dogs right now is probably not a good idea. Possibly your neighbor / walking partner will accompany you. Hopefully with some icing, elevation and fresh air, your day will feel brighter.
Best Wishes!
Hi Jamie and Layla. Thank you for your messages. There are a few misunderstandings.
It was my GP surgery I rang yesterday to try and get a telephone appt with my GP. I was told I'd have to wait til the 10th May to speak to someone about my knee. This is what upset me. The NHS in the UK is not good and waiting times can be very long for operations, to see a consultant etc. if I am referred to see a different consultant to the surgeon who did my knee, I have no idea how long I will have to wait. A month, 3 months, 6 months or longer. This is why I wanted to speak to a doctor yesterday to try and get the ball rolling and get a referral, to get in the queue.
In saying this morning that I thought I had an infection worked insomuch as I actually got an appt to SEE my doctor this morning. This proved very beneficial in many ways. She was kind, sympathetic and gave me some advice, but also some much needed reassurance and encouragement. To me this was a bit of an emergency as since yesterday I can feel myself falling apart again. Once she has seen the x-ray results she will refer me to see a consultant, even if the implant is ok. She also suggested taking paracetamol three times a day as it has mild antiinflammatory in them. Also to see the physio again as he may know of other cases similar to mine.
With regard to walking, apart from the weekend, I have been doing two walks every day outside. 10-12 minutes each time. I am icing 7/8 times every day for 45 minutes. I am getting up and moving when I've been static for an hour. I've been doing all the bends, stretching, ankle pumps etc. I'm doing two elevations every day for 45-60 minutes.
The reason I know the ROM is the same is because I got into my car 5 days after my op with HUGE difficulty. The last time I got out of my car was on Monday, three days ago and it is just as hard to get in and out. Going in backwards, I slide as far to the gear stick as I can get, and then have to bodily lift my bum off the seat and move backwards a few inches. I can then, just, squeeze my feet into the footwell. It is no easier now than over three months ago. This is how I know my ROM is unchanged. And over the 3 months I've got into my car on some 12 occasions, and it's never any easier.
It was my GP surgery I rang yesterday to try and get a telephone appt with my GP. I was told I'd have to wait til the 10th May to speak to someone about my knee. This is what upset me. The NHS in the UK is not good and waiting times can be very long for operations, to see a consultant etc. if I am referred to see a different consultant to the surgeon who did my knee, I have no idea how long I will have to wait. A month, 3 months, 6 months or longer. This is why I wanted to speak to a doctor yesterday to try and get the ball rolling and get a referral, to get in the queue.
In saying this morning that I thought I had an infection worked insomuch as I actually got an appt to SEE my doctor this morning. This proved very beneficial in many ways. She was kind, sympathetic and gave me some advice, but also some much needed reassurance and encouragement. To me this was a bit of an emergency as since yesterday I can feel myself falling apart again. Once she has seen the x-ray results she will refer me to see a consultant, even if the implant is ok. She also suggested taking paracetamol three times a day as it has mild antiinflammatory in them. Also to see the physio again as he may know of other cases similar to mine.
With regard to walking, apart from the weekend, I have been doing two walks every day outside. 10-12 minutes each time. I am icing 7/8 times every day for 45 minutes. I am getting up and moving when I've been static for an hour. I've been doing all the bends, stretching, ankle pumps etc. I'm doing two elevations every day for 45-60 minutes.
The reason I know the ROM is the same is because I got into my car 5 days after my op with HUGE difficulty. The last time I got out of my car was on Monday, three days ago and it is just as hard to get in and out. Going in backwards, I slide as far to the gear stick as I can get, and then have to bodily lift my bum off the seat and move backwards a few inches. I can then, just, squeeze my feet into the footwell. It is no easier now than over three months ago. This is how I know my ROM is unchanged. And over the 3 months I've got into my car on some 12 occasions, and it's never any easier.
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Hello again,
The wait times you describe are unbelievable. I'd take whatever appointment times are offered, you can always cancel if you find someone willing to see you sooner, or if an issue resolves. It's certainly not ideal trying to advocate for yourself in a system that sounds strained. I wouldn't encourage anyone to be dishonest about symptoms to get called to the front of the line especially because of others that may truly need urgent care. I am sure they try to prioritize fairly, with that said, hopefully the advice and encouragement you received has eased your mind somewhat.
Icing - If you're icing for six hours a day, then separately elevating for two hours, that's basically a full time job. Hopefully in between you're able to clean and maintain your home, do laundry, cook and engage in any necessary grooming (self care) and get outdoors for some fresh air at the very least, or a short walk.
A tip - try placing a garbage bag on the car seat before you get in. it will remove any friction making it easier to swivel into front facing (windshield) position. Hopefully it will help make the process a little less painful.
@Dolphin5
The wait times you describe are unbelievable. I'd take whatever appointment times are offered, you can always cancel if you find someone willing to see you sooner, or if an issue resolves. It's certainly not ideal trying to advocate for yourself in a system that sounds strained. I wouldn't encourage anyone to be dishonest about symptoms to get called to the front of the line especially because of others that may truly need urgent care. I am sure they try to prioritize fairly, with that said, hopefully the advice and encouragement you received has eased your mind somewhat.
Icing - If you're icing for six hours a day, then separately elevating for two hours, that's basically a full time job. Hopefully in between you're able to clean and maintain your home, do laundry, cook and engage in any necessary grooming (self care) and get outdoors for some fresh air at the very least, or a short walk.
A tip - try placing a garbage bag on the car seat before you get in. it will remove any friction making it easier to swivel into front facing (windshield) position. Hopefully it will help make the process a little less painful.
@Dolphin5
Hi Layla
Yes, it's hard at times to get to see a GP or even get a telephone appt with one. Never used to be like this. Similarly the government has stopped giving funds to chemists so at times there's a shortage of chemists, or they close for the occasional afternoon, big queue to get prescription etc but that's getting a bit political.
I'm ahead of you with the garbage bag. I was given a lightweight, 'slippery' silky piece of material when I had a tummy op years ago and always sit on this. As you say, it really helps to swivel round.
I do the icing when elevating. And do about 3 times in the evening. Lunchtime, first thing in the morning with coffee.
Please be honest, have you come across anyone on here who at over 3 months is still at only 45o?
Thanks for sticking with me.
Yes, it's hard at times to get to see a GP or even get a telephone appt with one. Never used to be like this. Similarly the government has stopped giving funds to chemists so at times there's a shortage of chemists, or they close for the occasional afternoon, big queue to get prescription etc but that's getting a bit political.
I'm ahead of you with the garbage bag. I was given a lightweight, 'slippery' silky piece of material when I had a tummy op years ago and always sit on this. As you say, it really helps to swivel round.
I do the icing when elevating. And do about 3 times in the evening. Lunchtime, first thing in the morning with coffee.
Please be honest, have you come across anyone on here who at over 3 months is still at only 45o?
Thanks for sticking with me.
