Bilateral TKR Back for more info

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PT said he is going to have to really stretch it more. It is already pretty painful where he stretches it now!
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It's not supposed to be like this. Your PT's stretching efforts are exactly what is arresting your progress. Because s/he's causing more of the Unholy Trinity of TKR recovery: pain/inflammation/swelling, and that, my dear, will make your leg stiff and unyielding. When you try to bend a leg with that going on, it causes further injury!

The best advice I've heard for increasing bend is this: limit your PT to two routines. One is straight leg raises, to get the quad back in action. The other is gentle bends. Twenty a day total is all you need, and they need to be done very slowly and held for like 60 seconds; it can be uncomfortable but NOT painful. I would do 10 twice a day, but knowing what I know now, I would do two each hour. The rest of your efforts need to concentrate on reducing the Unholy Trinity.

BTW, we have scores of people each year who are, well, mistreated by their PT. They learn they must set limits and if necessary, get a new PT or even quit PT. Believe or not, you don't need PT to progress well. What we forget is that the primary force of recovery not what we (or our PTs or orthos) do but our body's innate healing mechanisms. You can (and should) develop a home routine that is more respectful of The Knee and do just fine!!
 
Should I still have the constant ache? It's more of constant pressure in my knees and a constant ache in my calfs. I feel great walking but pay for it at night and the next day with swelling. I am afraid the pain meds might be contributing to my depression. Depression runs in my family so when it starts creeping up previously, I know to get outside in sunshine and fresh air. With my knees, it's not that easy right now. I was outside most of the weekend, walking & swinging (porch swing). My lack of sleep might be contributing too. I take the pain pill but wake up 4-5 hours later and can't find that comfortable position. I am putting pillows under my legs, taking pillows away, trying to sleep on my side. Think I will call my doc's office today. My PT has me worried about my ROM so much, I am afraid to go to my 6 week check up next week!
 
Thank you both! It helps just to know that I am on a normal road to recovery. The depression really hits hard when I feel like I am failing.
 
There is a smorgasbord of aches and pains in this recovery. You have to take the dosage of meds to make you comfortable. Yes they contribute to depression. Trouble sleeping goes with the territory. Two things helped me: filling my days with simple pleasures, and, I was slow to get this one, forming a mental image of my knees and function six months down the road. BTW the swinging sounds wonderful but with your amount of swelling, having your legs down doesn't help the swelling.

Any PT who makes you fearful is not a help. That tells me you need a different one. We are hear to help you and hold your hand. Your ortho's job is really just monitoring you. They are not generally in the business of giving advice during these early weeks because they have many patients who are also worried. Your best use of energy would be to go to the "library" tab at the top of the page and start reading the knee replacement articles. As far as I can tell, this forum has the best TKR information available. I'll tag @Jamie to come lend a hand.
 
Are you icing at all and are you elevating properly? I found those two little details absolutely crucial. That and I am thinking you might want to supplement 3-4 hydrocodone 10-325 daily with more tylenol--I was taking up to 4 grams total Tylenol a day (and essentially NO opiates after the first week) with the occasionaly motrin or naprosyn in between. I had my toes above my nose and an ice cuff on the knee for probably 80% or more of my waking hours and if my knee woke me up at night it got iced and elevated then, too. That REALLY helped the swelling and pain. If you are overdoing at this stage you are just prolonging the recovery.
 
It helps just to know that I am on a normal road to recovery.

We've all been through it, all of have had unrealistic expectations, and got the truth from the people on here.
Remember it's a marathon, not a sprint. Be gentle with yourself and you will soon see a steady improvement, not every day (because it's two steps forward, one back), but each week will bring improvements. Try to recognise these improvements and the light at the end of the tunnel will get brighter.

I was wondering if you are suffering from SAD syndrome, but I suspect you get lots of sunshine in Texas, but anyway a bit more might help.
 
I agree with @jeano and of course Tykey. And when you cut back your PT to only what's essential, you will need less pain med. Trust us.
 
I'm so happy to hear you're in recovery!!! And frankly, your ROM sounds just fine for this point in your recovery journey. It IS a journey, you know......much longer than just a few weeks or even a few months. You've had a major, MAJOR procedure and your body is telling you it needs your patience and gentle treatment to heal properly. Please listen to your body and not to any therapist who may tell you to "work hard" or "meet this goal" or "you only have so much time to get things right." It's just not so. You are far better with the gentle approach to exercises and stretching mentioned above. Any pain you experience when stretching should be just to the slight discomfort stage.

From reading your posts, I believe you are doing too much too soon. Especially with a bi-lateral TKR, you should not to doing a lot of walking. In fact, just moving about the house and maybe a short walk outside (like to the mailbox and back) is plenty. Of course, you should be doing those stretches and bends as maryo52 suggested. Most of your day should be spent resting, icing and elevating. It's okay to work at your desk for short periods or to sit in a chair, but watch how much time you spend doing this as it can contribute to your swelling (knee is not elevated).

You say you are walking with a cane....does that mean you are walking with a good strong gait? Or....are you kind of limping a bit when you walk? If it's not a normal gait with the cane, you should drop back to a walker or crutches. Many times people try to advance to the least amount of support way too fast. This makes your body work harder to walk and stresses your tender tissues. For example, I used my walker around the house with my single TKR for about 2 months. At that point, my gait was mostly back to normal and I actually never used a cane except when I went out of the house. With a BTKR, it might even be a bit longer. If you can walk with a walker or crutches with a normal gait, in fairly long strides, then you might transition to a cane. If not, please stay with the walker or crutches until you are healed and strong enough to make the change.

At five weeks, it is perfectly normal to need pain medications....even prescription ones. You are undermedicating for your pain. You need to be on a regular schedule with whatever medications you are taking. That ache you feel is breakthrough pain that's not being managed. Pain meds only remain in your system about 4 hours. That is why you're waking up and hurting. So, get yourself on a regular schedule of taking something every 4 hours.

Since you have the hydrocodone, I suggest starting with 1 pill every 4 hours (assuming that is the dose on the label, of course) for a day. If the pain is controlled, you could expand the time by an hour or two gradually until you are taking one pill every 6 hours, provided the pain is still managed properly. You can also break the pills in half and take half a pill for all or some of the regular doses. The point is to keep some medication in your system throughout the day and night so that your pain doesn't have a chance to build up on you. The way you're taking the pain meds now, you are always chasing pain and it actually takes more meds to do that than it does to manage it and keep it under control. So once you get to the point that you're managing the pain properly, then you can see if less medication or longer periods of time between doses works for you. But you must get things under control first!

At some point, you can start using Tylenol for pain...either by itself or in combination with the hydrocodone. BUT.....there are limits to how much acetaminophen (the ingredient in Tylenol and also in your hydrocodone) you can safely take in any 24 hour period. That limit is 4000mg, so be sure you tally up what you're taking and don't exceed that each day. You can take up to 1000mg of acetaminophen (Tylenol) in any single dose and usually we recommend that amount be taken for maximum effectiveness for pain. That would be 2 Extra Strength Tylenol or you could combine one (or half) of your hydrocodone and one 500mg Tylenol for a single dose. Once the pain is under control, it's okay to do a little experimenting to find out what the least level of medication is that you need.

It's true that using prescription pain meds can contribute to depression, but it's also a fact that constant pain and lack of sleep can do the same. I think you'll find your depression improving once you get your pain under control. I believe it's the constant pain that's causing you to feel as you do.

Please post again soon and let me know how you're doing!!! We'll help you through this. It will get better!!!
 
Thank you again so much. In Texas we usually get lots of sunshine but this winter it has been cold and dreary. No sunshine! This weekend was so pretty so that is why I was out walking and swinging on the porch swing. I keep my legs elevated every time I sit but I don't always lay down because is still have some pluersey left over from as case of the flu before surgery. Laying down a lot seems to aggravate that. Went to work at my office for a few hours today. Having someone drive me, not driving yet. But didn't over do it and came home propped up knees and took a nap. Tried taking ibuprofen today but it didn't seem to help much. Doctors nurse just called back. She said at 6 weeks, he will expect me to be at 120 on my ROM. But because I am not taking my pain meds and keeping ahead of the pain, it may be causing me to tense and stiffen up so much it may inhibit my ROM. So I will go back to taking my pain meds faithfully! Y'all are the best support group ever. I would highly recommended this site, and have, to anyone dealing with hip and knee issues!
 
Hi @rfricano,
I can't add anything to what has already been said, only agree with all of it. I'm so sorry that you are having a hard time at the moment, but if you have the time to take a look at my recovery thread, you will see that you and I are only a couple of days apart in our surgery dates, and the last couple of weeks have been my hardest emotionally. I did only have one knee done but I still wake every night in the early hours, I always restack my pillows, ( for my knee) change my ice pack and take a painkiller. My leg is iced and elevated most of the day. Tomorrow I have my last of four group PT sessions at which we do a circuit of very easy, stretching activities.at no time has a PT physically touched me so no one has hurt me, please don't let them ever hurt you.I hope you have a better day tomorrow.
 
Just had my evaluation from the supervisor PT??? Anyway, I am still not even at 90 and during my PT sessions, it is really painful. I am still having home therapy but think I need to go to a group/place. Maybe I will get more out of it. I am worried about my doctor is expecting me to be at 120 when I go for my follow up...which is next Thursday. Not sure what else I can do. I am back to taking my pain meds on a regular basis to help stretching. I just want some of my life back. We were at the end of a remodel/addition to our house when I went into the hospital. So trying to work on a few things in the new area. Had to get on the floor to work on something and cried because I couldn't get up! Had to get my husband to help get me up! I forget how limited I am!
 
Don't forget you are still pretty early in your recovery. Feeling frustrated is normal. I'm glad you're taking your pain meds again. What are your activity levels like? You should still be taking it pretty easy other than your PT and still icing and elevating.
 
Beginning this week, I am trying to work at my desk 2 - 4 hours total a day. Trying to get ready to going back to an 8 hour day. I am walking probably a total of 3 hours a day. I have PT 3 days a week for stretching. I warm up on an exercise bike and some stretching before he comes. I have an incumbent bike and can't go all the way around without swaying my hips to the side some but I can just go back and forth some to stretch my knees out. I find that I have less swelling doing that rather than walking. When I do sit down, I always elevate my knees and I ice twice a day at least. I am sleeping with my legs elevated now at night too. When I talked to my doctors nurse and she told me he is going to expect me to be at 120 by next Thursday, I know it will not happen! So now I am a little panicked.
 
The knees are in charge. The nurse for your OS can say that he/she "expects" to see 120 from each and every patient but you cannot force ROM and, trust me, he'll get over his disappointment.

When I think about it, it really is arbitrary... my ROM wasn't that great before my BTKR! I'd walked with a cane for three years and did precious little walking, using a scooter in the stores that had them and shopping amazon online for everything else.

Hang in there!
Jacki
 
Just an update. Had my 6 week Ortho appointment, I was not looking forward to. Had called the nurse about my appt and my ROM being a little less than 90. She told me he would expect 120 by my 6 week appt. That's when I really got upset. My appt was last Thursday and the doctor was pleased at where I was! He was happy with my ROM for now and my activity level. He made me feel so much better! Here I was so upset over what the nurse told me last week. I'm at 90/80 on my knees as of yesterday. He cancelled home therapy and seining me to PT facility. I think that will do even better! Thanks for all the advise. I feel much better about my recovery. My ortho is out of town (2hours away) so he said unless I had any problems I don't have to come back for a year!
 
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from your ortho, @rfricano! Just keep doing exercises slowly and easily that bend the knees pushing yourself to discomfort and time will give you all the bend you need for your activities. ROM can keep increasing for more than a year, so time is certainly on your side.

Take care and keep us posted. We care.
 
And remember, it's only been a few weeks! A long journey to go, be kind to yourself!
 
Keep up the great work . There is a free app you can download to a smart phone. Its called med coach . It alerts me every 5 hours for my meds . It was very helpful my first week as I was taking alot of different pills. Now im on tramadol every 5 hours and 1 celebrex daily with Tylenol. However was told 4000 mgs per 24 hours is the maximum , however got feedback on this site to where it is now suggested 3000mgs. Im renting a room to a traveling nurse in the intensive care unit at my local hospital and she said without hesitation 3000mgs per 24 hours. Our dear beloved Josephine told me 4000 mgs . So im confused. Regardless ive cut back on the tylenol , just to be safe. Hasnt affected my pain as I am a fortunate one that I havent experienced much pain to start with. Best of luck .
 
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