TKR 12 weeks and Knee-Cation

[cycling67]

Thank you MM! I agree, walking is certainly not correct and likely the cause of the hip/back stuff. I have an appointment tomorrow with a massage therapist and maybe the chiropractor.

Speedy2: It does help knowing that others are feeling what I feel but I am SO SORRY that you are feeling it. Does that make sense? Yes mornings are the WORST. I find myself at night getting a bit anxious for "sleep time" simply because I know it is going to be a long night. I need to work on this attitide and maybe try and expect a good night. I try pillows, heat, ice, massage, icy hot, you name it I have tried it.

Oh how I understand the depression thing and being amazed by it. I have never felt truly depressed and with this recovery I can certainly say I am there. it is a bit of a scary place but I continue to battle and with the support of this forum and people like you it helps! I feel as though I am isolating myself which is the worst thing I can do, so I am seeking some help for that. I can now empathize, rather than sympathize with this feeling truly depressed whether from a life event or just in general.

The one thing I have learned from this is the need to be far more supportive to others as we all need people to share highs/lows with

Well said. I truly believe that there is a reason that I am dealing with this and it is up to me to learn the things necessary through this trial.

Thank you so VERY much!

 

[cycling67]

At least we both have it and are at the same post op recovery time. Hope you're feeling a little better Brenda?

Thanks Speedy2!!! Yes it seems we are on parallel paths which does help. I am your biggest cheer leader and want the best for you. I am feeling a bit better as the morning time is almost over, I am headed down to spin gently on my bike and get a stretch in before PT which is later this afternoon.

One step at a time. I am a cyclist and on long rides when it got hard we say to ourselves "Just keep spinning". Kind of like Dory on Finding Nemo saying "just keep swimming". We need to just keep trying.

 

[NightQuilter]

Though my experience base is only of 1 - me - I would say the frustrations and aches you are experiencing Brenda are entirely normal. I had friends who were up and golfing after 5 weeks(!!), yet they did not have the extreme valgus condition we did. We did not develop it overnight, and while our OS's "fixed" it in an hour, we managed to change our walk, balance, gait, muscular support structure over years to compensate for the deterioration in our knee structure. Now, unfortunately, we need to grit our teeth a little longer for all those factors to catch up to what our OS's did to correct the leg. When we need the rest the most, we can't get it. But it will come back. Don't push yourself to get up and be active - allow yourself an extra nap during the day to refresh. The stiff knee in the morning will be with you for awhile, but then suddenly you will realize its gone. Most likely it is a bit of fluid build-up since you have not been moving your knees too much at night t keep the fluid circulating. I still get a bit of it sometimes, but a few stretches works it right out. The pillows under and between the knees are great ones - seemed to help me. When you are feeling frustrated, just keep in mind you are SOOOOOOO much better off than you were before the surgery - and you will keep getting better - not on your schedule, but on your knee's.

 

[cycling67]

Nightquilter: !!! It is good to know that I am normal in how I feel, although I feel anything but normal. You are SO right, years of walking abnormally and now that I am supposedly straight, I feel anything but straight. Strange how the body/muscles work.

I don't feel better now than I did before surgery, although I know that I had NO choice but to have this replacement done. It was over do and we simply were trying to wait until I got 'a bit older'. However I believe that one day I will feel 200% better than I did before surgery and 100% better than I do now.

I get so panicky sometimes when i am stretching and i don't see any progress. It is almost like this clautrophobic feeling that it needs to move NOW and I immediatly get depressed and worried. But as you said not my timeline, but my knees timeline. My knee is a slow poke.

Will i ever learn to be patient? Will i ever learn to accept the current state and be happy with doing what I can do and believe that things will get better? Obviously retorical questions, but ones that I ask myself daily.

Again thank you!

 

[Josephine]

Oh how I understand the depression thing and being amazed by it. I have never felt truly depressed and with this recovery I can certainly say I am there.

Did you read our article on that? Post op blues is a reality - be prepared for it.

Kind of like Dory on Finding Nemo saying "just keep swimming".

Couldn't have put it better myself!

allow yourself an extra nap during the day to refresh.

At least! Preferably more.

Most likely it is a bit of fluid build-up since you have not been moving your knees too much at night t keep the fluid circulating.

That's a pretty good description, NQ. When we lie still all night, the fluid does collect in our legs and swelling occurs. The best in depth explanation of it is here Swollen and stiff knee: what causes it?.

The pillows under and between the knees

Under the length of the leg - NEVER under the knee! See here elevation is the key.

These three articles are all in the set given earlier, please note.

 

[NightQuilter]

Oops! Thank you for clarifying what I meant about the pillows Josephine!

Brenda, I know what you mean about that claustrophobic feeling. I remember it distinctly - feeling like I couldn't stretch or move or get down on the ground. I felt panicky too. My solution - the sainted Joe (my hubby) got my friend the massage therapist over with her table and gave me a great massage. And after that, with her making sure I wouldn't roll off(!) I STRETCHED my back and hips and legs and arms. I felt so renewed and nearly human again! The massage was the best because on my legs she used gentle shiatsu starting with the feet and lower legs, very gently on the sides and back of the knees, then the upper legs - all to get the lymph and fluids moving in and out of the legs, followed by having me do deep belly breathing exercises because the diaphragm triggers the central lymphatic system to move that fluid out of our system. The PT tables work well for that stretching too.

 

[cycling67]

Jo: Thank you so much for your thoughts. I have read the depression article and read again and again, printed, forwarded to others, and read again. LOL I guess I just want a magic pill to make me less depressed. I did decide to go see a therapist just to talk which I am looking forward to. Utiize ALL resources.

All is well for the pillow under the knee. Although I do sleep with a pillow between my knees at night (or try to sleep), when on my back I sleep with the pillow at full length of my leg.

In regards to morning stiffness, i sleep the first part of the night with an iceman running. I don't think that I have any swelling, at least none that I see. However I see in the artical that: "It can be internal and the sensation then is that the tissues round the joint feel hard and ungiving also often warm or even hot to the touch."
My knee feels like this. :( I think that this means MORE icing, more elevation!

MM: I have a massage scheduled for tomorrow at 11am. Looking forward to it and will try and get a weekly massage.

Thank you all for the help today. I spoke to my OS PA today. He, of course, just like you all have said, that how I feel is completely normal. He said that I need to continue my gentle stretching 5 - 7 times a day, resting, elevating and icing. He said, given how bad my knee was they expect a longer recovery than normal and again re-iterated that they typically won't even consider an MUA until 9 - 12 months post-op. They believe, in time, it will come. I am grateful, VERY grateful that my OS agrees with all I am reading on this forum. With conflict simply comes confusion.

HUGS to all of you! If only we could all meet together somewhere, sometime, somehow.

 

[maryo52]

Scanning your latest posts reminds me of the funk I went through after knee surgery. I think it evoked a sense of vulnerability that has never completely left me . . . or maybe I still feel a bit off because I've had one challenge after another since my knee recovery saga.

I recently came across some research that suggests that acetominophen (Tylenol) can improve sleep and a sense of "existential well being," that it not only works on physical pain but emotional pain. I have been taking 8 hour acetominophen at night and although I still have pain (mostly my feet), I find I sleep better and have a greater sense of well being. Just a thought.

This too shall pass, as they say -- not much consolation when one's faith is being tested.

 

[speedy2]

Hi Brenda, how are you feeling today? Hope things are less dark. Strange isn't it how things can seem so black and it doesn't matter what you do - I can relate to the swimming quote except at times it has felt like I've got to keep swimming else I'll sink beneath the waves. I have felt much better this week thank goodness so hope it continues...

Like you, I also left it far too late to have this done because of age, and I think that is a significant factor why we are perhaps feeling like we do - are expectations were too high of what our knee would be like post op. However, just remember what it was like before. I have just been out, driven by my husband to the garden centre where all the Christmas decorations etc are out. I was saying how I can't understand why i hadn't bought any cards in the post Christmas sales. He then reminded me that I actually was unable to walk around the garden centre in Jan which made me think. There is an improvement in the quality of my life already. I'm sure there is with you too, you just need to be reminded of it. And as I said yesterday we WILL get there and enjoy the freedom together.

Take care
BIG hugs

 

[cycling67]

Morning Speedy2: I am feeling a little better today, not as far "in the hole" as I felt yesterday. I took some steps yesterday like simply talking to people which helped. Slept better last night but still not quite what I need. Soon it will come. I am so glad that this week has been bettter for you, keep up the GREAT work. I totally agree with you on incorrect expectations. You are also SO right on finding the things that are better post-surgery. I have to remember that for the last couple of months I couldn't even cycle with my knee and certainly couldn't walk any great distance. I still can't now, but I know I will be able to. Prior to my surgery I could literally feel my knee moving even while just standing there. When i would have a massage my knee joint would move around, completely unstable. It it certainly stable now, which is such a foreign feeling to me. I am happy for this.

Thank you for the reminder! BIG hugs right back to you!!!!

Mary: Very interesting about the Tylenol. I haven't taken any Tylenol for awhile since I am still taking percuset. I have wondered about a Tylenol PM to help me sleep and stay asleep?

This too shall pass, as they say -- not much consolation when one's faith is being tested

You are right, it is SO hard to believe that this will pass when we are right in the middle of a dark time and faith is being tested, BUT we must "Keep on trying". I often think, I just can't do this anymore, i can't handle any more pain and discomfort. But then my next thought is, well then what are you going to do, just sit there? Obviously this is not an option. We are too far down the road to stop, we must keep on keeping on.

I think you are right on with that sense of vulnerability. Thank you for your thoughts and for your understanding. That alone is so helpful!

 

[NightQuilter]

This discussion reminded me that I did take some Tylenol PM after I was mostly off the heavy drugs, and it did help! I would check with your OS's PA first if you are still on other meds to be sure there will be no adverse interactions.

 

[cycling67]

Thank you NQ: I will check with the PA for the OS to make sure it is OK to take a tylenol PM since i am still on Percuset at times. Not a lot, but yet still on it. thank you so much!

 

[Nomorepain67]

Hi cycling67 and speedy2
Sorry I've been out of the loop for awhile. I'm back to work part time and figuring out the balance between that, kids and taking care of myself have kept me busy. Like both of you I have had the up and down days - had a pretty low day just last week which seemed to come out of no where. Actually cried most of the day wondering why in the heck I decided to go through with the surgery in the first place. It took me by surprise because I hadn't had one for awhile. I can completely share your frustration of things not resolving fast enough, but since we are in it this far, we really don't have a choice. I always go back through my lists and remind myself of what is better today than even a week ago. I'm on my third week sleeping totally in my bed, I can drive short distances and I managed the stairs at a Badger hockey game just this past Saturday. Of course it was too much walking but well worth and the best was "I did it". I finally feel like my tight bands are letting up the tiniest amount, but I can tell and that is progress.

Another big milestone for me, riding the bike for 10-15 minutes actually makes me feel better - no longer the agony it was before surgery.

When sleep was at its worse, I tried melatonin which you can buy over the counter. Only ended up taking it two nights and I have actually ditched my leg pillows while sleeping. I am doing so much better with 3-5 hour stretches now that I am not constantly fidgeting with the extra pillows

Wishing all of you a restful night and a better tomorrow,
Hugs
Stacie

 

[speedy2]

Hi Stacie and Brenda,

No wonder you have been out of the loop for a while-you have been busy! and what progress you're making.
It's interesting that we three have had very similar problems. The sleep is still a big issue with me so perhaps I may ditch a pillow or two. How about you Brenda, do you have this prob? Perhaps thats why I keep itching, I thought it was a habit I had got into because I couldn't sleep but perhaps it's all the pillows annoying me.

You two are doing great going back to work. Unfortunately, I know that is not an option just yet which worries me but am definitely working on it.

Interesting about the bike too Stacie. I have just started to be able to do full rotations on it and can eel the benefit although i've not got up to 10/15 minutes yet.

When you say you managed the stairs (well done you) did you have a stick? I'm trying to walk around the house without it as much as I can but find I need it first think to get me going. I don't feel i'm stable enough to try it yet on walks. How about you Brenda? Do you still use a crutch/stick?

Great news about the tightness and driving-That gives me hope I still find it so difficult getting into the car as a passenger so hope that very soon this will get better so that I can drive. Do you think the tightness is because of the cycling or have you got another explanation. I know I and i'm sure Brenda would love to know as I find this so depressing.

Keep in touch with us both when you can, i'm sur you don't have much time.

Big hugs Speedy2

 

[cycling67]

Good Morning All!

Stacie: Hi again and yes you have been busy. GREAT job on your progress, so happy for you!!!!! You are so correct when you say it is frustrating yet here we are, we need to just keep going.

Speedy2 is correct, we all seem to share a fairly similar path with surgeries very near each other. Speedy2 I am VERY MUCH still struggling with sleeping and night times. I even get a bit anxious when bed time comes because I know I likely won't sleep very well. I typically get 1 - 2 hour blocks of time then wake up and need to move. I use pillows to start elevation with and then to put between my knees. My biggest complaint is the muscle pains and aches I have in my right gluteal area and lower right back. Every time I move it hurts in bed which is why I get awoken I think. I am working on the muscles, have started to take "Myo Calm" an herbal supplement along with I am looking into the Tylenol PM thing. Meletonin is a GREAT idea that i migth try also. There is nothing like a good night sleep which I am missing.

Bike topic: I ride the bike at least 15 minutes each day. I have had to raise the seat to make a full rotation but I continue to lower it to help with my flexion range of motion. The bike indeed does help and loosens things up. YAY for the .

Crutch(s): In the mornings I am definitely still using a crutch to get around as not only is my knee stiff but all of my muscles (again muscle issue) in leg are tight. Safer so I don't fall. When fully warmed up I walk around the house without a crutch. When i go out to stores or for a walk i take the crutch with me mainly for others to notice me but also to help me if I get tired. For the most part I am trying really hard to walk normally without a crutch.

The tightness is so very depressing. My PT and OS say it is going to last for awhile lonter. :( My main bother and concerns are: Lack of good sleep, peripheral muscle pain and flexion ROM. I continue to do my 4 - 6 gentle stretches each day hoping/believing that eventually it will work. I try each and every day to recognize that all I can do is try my best each day and some days are certainly better than others.

On a brighter note: Tomorrow (thursday) I am going to the P!NK concert here ins SLC. I saw her several months ago in Vegas but wanted to go again. I hope I can last the concert. I figure I might overdo it but my mental state needs some therapy as well.

 

[renatelynne]

I used a heating pad to heat the muscles prior to and uring stretching after my BTKR---it worked quite well.

Be careful with the heating pad. If you have any areas that still haven't got a lot of feeling in them yet you can burn them without knowing it. (lessons learned the hard way).

nata

 

[Josephine]

I even get a bit anxious when bed time comes because I know I likely won't sleep very well. My main bother and concerns are: Lack of good sleep, peripheral muscle pain and flexion ROM.

I take it you have never browsed around in the Library .... most of the things you have mentioned have articles in there, such as this one Sleep deprivation is pretty much inevitable - but what causes it?. Although I do know that just reading an article doesn't make up for the support you get here.

 

[cycling67]

Thanks Jo for the article. I, in fact, have read that exact article while browsing through the library along with nearly all of the others. You hit it right on though, for the sleep issue specifically I know why I can't sleep, which of course was confirmed by the article, but sometimes it is helpful to simply get out the frustration and hear from others, thus the lack of sleep comment.

This forum is so wonderful because of the people and the support felt through the simple written word. First off knowing that what you are experiences is 'normal', typicaly the articles provide this, and then finally support, understanding, and specific ideas from forum members. I have found this forum, knowledge learned and people that I have "met" a significant part of my recovery up to now and feel confident it will continue.

Thank you!

 

[Nomorepain67]

Hey girls,
I use a cane all the time when I'm out and about. Usually leave it some where in the house then have to walk more going to look for it

Since I had both knees done and they are now fairly similar I can do every other foot or single step but still very slowly holding a rail and using my cane. I can do single steps or curbs with just my cane.

Have a great time at the PINK concert - there is a lot to be said about mental state. Just be sure to rest up before and after.

I still have the dreaded rubber band tightness as well. I think it has eased up ever so slightly but would be much happier if that alone would go away.

Chat soon,
Stacie

 

[Camano76]

I just passed my 12th post-op week and had a check back with my OS. All the advise you have received in this forum is spot on! I too was worried about ROM until I found "Bonesmarties". I stopped my torture PT at 8 weeks (when I found this forum) and have reverted to the prior described stretching and gentle exercise. You know what? It really works! I was tortured into 110 ROM on my last PT. With my new regimen I am now easily at 115 at 12 weeks. My OS today said I am doing fine and right where I should be in recovery. I told him I am right where my knee told me I should be. I had a varus deformity at the time of surgery, so I am sure this has affected my recovery. Patience is the key! You are doing wonderful and I am sure will continue to improve as you follow the advise from this forum. I had to return to work, computer work, at 8 weeks and this was quite difficult with some good swelling by the end of the day. Icing and elevation once I got home took care of that. Sleeping is still hit and miss. The OS said today that is usually the last thing to recover. Keep the spirits up!

Lee