TKR TKR #2 --Left Knee -- (August 5 2015)

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Hi Jenny, yep, the patience thing is hard for most of us and it certainly has been an issue for me. About the pain meds --- I take just enough to keep the pain tolerable. For this week I have settled into Norco, every 8 hours (5,5, 10 at night) and next week, if pain is tolerable, then I will shift to 15mg total per day. But, when my leg starts to hurt, then I up the frequency and take what is necessary to keep things under control. For example, last weekend our neighbors called and asked if I was up to coming over for an impromptu gathering of friends. I was ready to get out and we went for about 4 hours or so and by then end of it, my leg was swollen and hurting more than usual. I took the next day and elevated --- that reduced the swelling the most -- and took enough pain meds to feel comfortable and by the next day i was back on track with the 5,5,10 dose and doing the regular PT routine.

I do envy your scar! I thought mine looked pretty good, but I am amazed at how thin yours is at this point in recovery. Mine still has some thickness and purple color at the top, but it seems similar enough to the first TKR that I am pretty sure it will smooth out over time.

I hope your recovery continues to go well and the delay in your surgery is not too troublesome.

Best wishes,
John
 
I also benefited during my last TKR by being relatively active: physical therapy, walking, using my exercise bike. Did I over-do it at times? Yep, and I learned the limits of being active. I rested enough, but my knee felt best during and after activity and I have carried that approach forward to this TKR. An active recovery works for me. It may not for everyone for a variety of reasons, but after the first TKR I returned to the activities of daily life at a pace i was happy with. Early on I bought into the focus on ROM, but after a while I decided that whatever ROM would allow me to cycle and do the work I need to around my property is what should drive my recovery and that is the same approach I have this time. Rest enough, be active enough to aid recovery, and don’t over-do either, that is a simple but important lesson for me.
Hi Metalheart, I too seem to be benefiting from being active in recovery. I'll be 8 weeks post-op on Monday. In fact, when I lay around resting and icing too much, seems all of my muscles get tense and sore from not using them. Unfortunately, I'm still focused on ROM, even though people, even my PT, tell me not to be. My goal is to get back on my road bike (ROM now 130) and I'm thinking about taking it for a short spin (1-2 miles) this weekend. I really enjoyed your post. It gives me confidence to push myself a bit, of course, without overdoing it. By nature, I'm cautious, and worry a lot about hurting my still recovering knee, so I don't think I'll push to that point. At least I hope not. Thanks again for your post.
 
I find that simply getting up every 20 minutes or so is key to avoiding stiffness but I don't have to do much. Just putting a dish in the sink or getting the mail is fine then I can relax again. As the weeks pass I want to and end up staying up longer and doing more intricate tasks. I actually set my phone's timer to go off so I would get up.

I hate that now I can go for an hour hike with the dogs but I will get stiff if I rest for too long after that! I ought to get to sit down for a while but knee disagrees. My new PT partner, Bucky the bratty spaniel mix, makes sure I get up to let him outside, remove shoes, socks, pillows, leashes, paper, mystery disgusting stuff from his mouth, protect poor Ginger from his bounces and grabs, check to see why it is so quiet and so on as well as play, groom and train him.
 
Hi Wantobebiking. Everyone focuses on ROM and it is hard not to do that, but if you are at 130, then you are well beyond concern about having enough to do most of the activities of daily life, especially cycling. I am on my bike --- using the indoor trainer --- 30-40 minutes a day and gradually building up. I am several weeks away from getting outside, but I am working on it. Like, you, my knee benefits from activity: I feel the best when on the bike or walking up and down stairs -- despite some discomfort -- and I feel the worst when sitting for any period of time. The stiffness that comes with inactivity is when my knee feels the worst. This is not what everyone experiences, but it is my experience so an active recovery has a place in the spectrum of how to recover from a TKR. And, your caution about over doing it is reasonable and has served you well in your recovery so far, so moving ahead with that approach seems completely warranted. Keep your spirits up and know that getting back on the bike is one the best elements of recovery!!!!

KYata--- I get up a lot and do different things, stretching, balance, walking stairs, and all the regular things we need to do to get back to everyday life. I walk my 9 year old Brittany around our property morning and evening and it is great fun for us both. After my first TKR I was able to do some chase game with her that I could not do for years before. She wants me to do that now and I can do some, but I also see that it is not too far in the future that we can play chase games I may even get the toy she keeps from me while we play. For me, these simple joys of daily life keep me working on getting functional again and doing these activities is fundamental to recovery. Give Ginger and Bucky pet for me.
 
I had my five week follow up appointment today: met with the Doc's PT first and went over range of motion (fine), best exercises for the next few weeks (nothing unusual), and how best to use my bike on a trainer going forward. Next was X-ray for full leg and knee bent, then a short time later the Doc went over his surgery notes and my current progress. He is pleased with ROM and my activity level, his advice is just not to do too much too soon. He is a cyclist also, so he can empathize with the desire to cycle as soon as possible.

I use my bike a couple times a day 15-20 minutes at a time and do some stretching and other exercises both before and after. Again nothing too hard, just enough to work on muscle balance, leg strength, and range of motion. My pain level is fine, just 2-3 most of the time at most. I have tapered down on Norco to 2x a day 5mg and I hope to be off next week, but the Doc said not to rush it if indicated by pain. I am hoping that I can get outside on the bike in 2-3 weeks, but I am not going to rush it. There is still plenty of cycling weather left this year.

I keep busy during the day doing small chores (refinishing a deck railing, walking the dog, some easy gardening, etc...), and when necessary I take a nap or just lay down and close my eyes. My list of things to get done keeps getting longer, but in a few weeks I should start to catch up.

Below is an image of my scar at 5 weeks. I did some cycling just before this was taken, so it is a little more puffy than usual!

[Bonesmart.org] TKR #2 --Left Knee -- (August 5 2015)
 
Lookin good! I cannot believe you are refinishing a deck. Glad your 5 week post-op went so well. Tuesday I had my 8 week (it was supposed to be my 6 week but my OS is super busy), and he basically cleared me for all of the activities that I eventully want to get back into.

Do you have the mobile bearing platform? My OS calls it the sports knee. I do, and it clicks a bit in the back when I first walk. It is bothersome but hopefully it will go away.

Congrats again on your good news.
 
I'm happy with the incision and if it ends up looking like the right knee, then nothing to worry about!

I am only refinishing the deck railing, so it is not as big a job as you might think. But, when my doc asked what I was doing he suggested that backing off a bit was probably something for me to think about. He is fine with whatever amount of time I spend on the bike, just as long as it does not result in too much swelling. I am at that stage where I am pretty tired of just taking it easy and trying to find the balance between enough but not too much and I am probably doing too much, so I am going to do less. But, I know that for me, staying active moves me toward being functional in everyday life and that is the goal for me. Others may need more rest and recuperation and that just shows the various paths to recovery. For me, getting on the bike and keeping my leg from being stiff is important and worked well for my first TKR and seems to be doing fine for the second.

Wanttobebiking-- I am not sure what prothesis I have, but I think it might be the fixed, but i need to find out since friends ask me all the time. The doc manipulated my leg in a couple of ways to illustrate how it can click or clunk and he assured me that in time that will go away. I pestered him with questions about leg length discrepancy and alignment and other physical issues that might limit how I cycle and he assured me all will be fine when I get back on the bike. I can't wait to do an outside ride but that is a few weeks away. Did you make it out last weekend?

Diana--- I hope things go well for you with the next surgery and based on your first recovery, you have what it takes to get back on the bike soon. I am glad I had some months in between the two knees because I know now that it is possible to have an uncompromised return to cycling after a TKR, it is just a matter of time to get there. Keep us posted!
 
Cothera VPlus

This is interesting (I do like gadgets). Can someone tell me exactly what I have been missing by:

a. not having used ice in any form or shape thus far

b. what will using the machine do for my wellbeing

I see that such things can be bought off EBay, brand new, for around the $250 mark
 
Cothera VPlus

This is interesting (I do like gadgets). Can someone tell me exactly what I have been missing by:

a. not having used ice in any form or shape thus far

b. what will using the machine do for my wellbeing

I see that such things can be bought off EBay, brand new, for around the $250 mark

I'll give this a shot:

a. Ice was very helpful for me during the first weeks of recovery for pain relief, especially after being up and around or doing activities that used the knee. Ice packs or bags of frozen peas work fine for some while others --- including myself -- prefer a cold water circulating machine (there are many of these by Breg, Ossur, Don Joy, etc...) where the wrap encloses the knee more and you don't have to deal with replacing the wrap/peas when it thaws. The Cothera Vplus adds a compression feature that is supposed to help with prevention of deep vein thrombosis after a TKR. Some wear compression stockings to do the same thing. I found the combination of compression and ice helpful in short term pain relief and reduction of swelling, that was my experience. Now, there is some dissenting opinion in the literature I have looked at and not everyone agrees on the value of ice after the very initial stages of surgery. All you have to do is Google RICE therapy and Dr. Mirkin (one of the original RICE advocates) and you will find diverse views about how icing affects recovery. I found icing useful early on, but at five weeks I only use it when my knee gets hot and swells a bit after exercise. At this point in my recovery, I use heat to loosen up my knee when it gets stiff and that feels the best.

b. If it lowers your pain level, makes you feel less uncomfortable, or otherwise gives you a therapeutic boost, then you can provide the answer about how it affects your wellbeing. Then, a bag of peas or a cold beer (held against the knee of course) might do the same .....

I bought my VPulse used from a lady who found it of no use for her. It was gently, if at all, used. I have no regrets about that purchase and I benefited from the large pad that almost totally enclosed my knee. I have a couple of friends who rented the Game Ready machine that has an even more encompassing pad and they were enthusiastic about the benefits they perceived from its use. A bag of peas, ice packs, circulating ice water, whatever works for your situation.......
 
Hi Metalheart,

To answer your question, I have been on my bike three times now. I mapped out a one-mile loop near my house. The first ride was about 0.5 miles. The second ride was about 1 mile, and the third was about 2.5 miles. My thread is titled "Overdoing or not doing enough?" And that question has plagued me since about week 4. I am now wrapping up week 9. I was going to try to do 4 miles today, but my knee is a bit stiff today after walking through Costco and attending an afternoon conference yesterday. I think it is good every so often to cutback, but then I start to question whether I've cutback too much and wonder whether that's why my knee is stiff. It's a tough balance, but so far so good for me. I have no effusion (my OS's words) in my knee, according to my OS. I guess it is just going to be stiff for awhile.

I am going to take it real slow on the bike. I did a 12-mile ride the weekend before surgery and I did PT for about one-month prior to surgery, so I went into it strong. But I sure get winded now when biking or even climbing steps, but I am not complaining because I AM back on my bike. I also had the minimally-invasive quad-sparing technique, which is supposed to hasten recovery by several weeks to months. In fact, I asked my doc about doing leg presses and such and he said I should be okay doing that because he didn't cut into my quadriceps. I'm pretty lucky.

@PeterL I lived in my cryocuff for two weeks, and probably iced 6-8 hours a day the next two weeks. I'm still icing, but only after exercise and before bed. I don't know if icing helped my swelling but my swelling was minimal coming out of surgery and I have not had a problem with swelling per se. Other problems, yes, swelling not so much.
 
@Wanttobebiking @metalheart

Do appreciate your replies, I guess that in many ways this is all about what makes you feel 'better'. As I said thus far not used ice at all, I'm generally OK but do have some heat and swelling of the right leg which seems to worry the PT more than me. Anyway I'm enthused enough to have bid, and amazingly 'won' myself a brand new VPulse machine off EBay for the princely sum of $215 albeit plus shipping and tax. I'll let you know how I get on with it, perhaps with this right knee but more likely the left one when it happens.

Thanks again.
 
In the spirit of sharing one of many paths to recovery, here is my 8 week update. The preamble about many paths to recovery is a good faith effort to let everyone know that I have not followed the general bonesmart approach to recovery in either of my recent TKR surgeries (January 5 and August 5, 2015). In general I have done the opposite of rest, lots of icing, no physical therapy or limited activity. My path may not be for everyone, but it is certainly one that others here have taken with success and it seems important to share the full range of experiences so that everyone who visits here can see that there are multiple paths to recovery.

So, here is what has happened since my five week follow-up:

Everyone thought I was doing well at the 5 week check-up and I decided to back off exercises and activity because I thought my recovery would just continue to improve. I did decide to start out-patient PT as a means to monitor how I was doing and to see if there was anything new to learn, but I did not plan to continue for more than a couple weeks. More on that below. I also stopped taking Norco at the end of week 6.

By the middle of week seven my extension was worse and there was little improvement in flexion and in fact the outpatient PT measured me at 108 and slip back from the 115 at the five week check-up. I continued to have a slight hesitation while walking and my knee was feeling stiff. So, I decided to return to a more active approach. I began a more intensive exercise program (2-3 sessions a day 1 to 1.5 hours each) including additional work riding my bike on the indoor trainer. For a few days there was not much progress, but the more I worked on extension the more it improved. Similarly, the more work I did on flexion and especially riding my bike, the less stiff my knee became and I felt some slight improvement in flexion.

This past weekend, there was work to be done on an ongoing deck project and I did everything my doc said I should not do: squatting, lunging, kneeling, and extended periods on my legs. I was tired by the end of the weekend and had to spend a few hours elevating to get the swelling manageable.

The following Monday morning I did my morning workout, including laying on my stomach and using a band to pull my knee forward to stretch everything that needs to stretch. Afterwards I was pretty stiff and felt some very sharp pains out the outside of my knee near the knee cap. Anyway, it was time to walk the dog after the workout and as I walked down the stairs I felt more of that same pain, but I as I took the first walking strides I could feel my knee was more flexible. When I went to PT later that day I was measured at 120 flexion. Now, I do not advocate doing what I did, but I think what happened is that the scar tissue or whatever was binding in my knee was loosened by the activity and that resulted in more flexion. It also resulted in a lot of swelling.

The next day, I did my usual routine and although I still have to work to keep extension near 0, flexion work was much easier and I felt as if I have retained the 120. So, I decided to go for my first outdoor bike ride on Wednesday and I had a nice easy fifteen mile ride. My seat is about 5mm above pre-surgery position and it takes concentration to keep my heel flat throughout the pedal stroke, but I am almost there. I spilled all of this at the 8 week follow-up appointment and I was encouraged not to over-do it again on the deck project and to keep up work on flexion and especially extension. Everyone was happy with progress, but I was duly reprimanded for going against the plan.

So, as I move on from week 8 my plan is to continue working on flexion and extension exercises, indoor cycling 2-3 times a day for 20 minutes, and one day a week riding outside until my pedal stroke improves. I also plan to continue physical therapy and here is why. The therapist spends about 20 or so minutes doing what is essentially deep tissue massage on my knee, quads, and soft tissue stuff. After that we work on flexion and extension manipulation: for extension she presses down on my knee and for flexion I lay on my stomach and she pushes my knee forward. Our agreement is that she does not go past a 6 on the discomfort scale. This is well within my tolerance. After each session, my knee has felt considerably better: less pain, more flexibility, and overall better mobility. So, I have decided to keep going until my extension is completely under control, meaning I can consistently keep it at 0 as opposed to getting it to 0 only to have it lag back several degrees. And, my knee just generally feels better after these PT sessions.

For my first TKR, an active approach to recovery worked well for me. That knee is now at 130 degrees and it feels as normal as an artificial prothesis can feel for me. I still have some numbness in that knee, but I assume it will go away. I can cycle as hard as I wish without any issues. And, for this second recovery when I have been active, my recovery has moved along well, but when I have just rested and did few if any exercises, then my knee became stiff and more uncomfortable. After periods of activity, I do get some swelling and there is some short term pain, but the tradeoff is that I am functional and doing the things in life that need to be done for me.

This active approach is certainly not for everyone just as the preferred bonesmart approach is not for everyone. There are many factors that can influence what path to recovery works best and I think it is useful and important to understand the full range of experiences that constitute recovery from a TKR. And, it is also useful to note that a sample of one is not the basis for recommending any single approach: we have to find our own paths and that is helped by sharing the full range of recovery experiences.
 
Fabulous.

I guess I am another of those for whom the active approach has also worked wonderfully .... including the deep tissue massage which has been tolerable, though not fun ... and has definitely helped me.

I'm heading home from the office right now and because of your post the first thing I'm going to do is climb on the exercycle.
 
@metalheart I agree. When I back off it seems my knee gets stiff and my flexion gets a little worse. Today I did my ROM exercises and I measured 134. My OS said my implant would would max out at 137, which I am happy to know. Congrats on the 15-mile ride. I did 10 miles last weekend and I was elated.

What do you mean your implant feels as normal as it can? I am still bothered by the feel of my implant.
 
Analysta: Let me steal a line from you: When I am on the bike and it hurts when I press to get a more normal range of motion, I think "That hurts so good!"

Wantobebiking: Isn't it great to get out for a ride! I wanted to scream at the top of my lungs after the first few pedal strokes, but my fellow bikers might have thought me more off than I otherwise am! And, your range of motion is great!

About the right knee prothesis. Mine has been in since January and it is something that I just do not notice now, other than when it does the occasional clunk and clack. My left knee at 8 weeks does not feel anything like the right, other than when they clunk and clack with each other when I walk. I fully expect that the left knee will fade into the background when healing is further along in a 2-3 more months or so......
 
Hey, Metalheart. That is my biggest bugaboo right now, knee feel. Going down stairs is not much fun either.

I saw my OS' PA today and he said what you said—as more healing occurs and the soft tissues strengthen, my knee will feel more normal. I can't wait. You know what, though? When I am on my bike none of it matters. So far the fall in Minnesota has been gorgeous, so I have a few more weeks to get in a few good rides. I was planning on a 15-mile ride on Sunday, but I got a synvisc injection in my non-TKR knee today, and my PA told me to take it easy and not do anything more than I have been doing for the next week or so. I might push it to 12 miles, though. We'll see. Just glad to be out riding.

Congrats to both of us. We are lucky to be doing so well.
 
Wantobebiking: Yes, we are lucky to be doing well and looking forward to returning to biking after this experience. Those who have difficult recoveries are on a different path and it is definitely a hard one and they have my respect: I think we know how hard it can be and I appreciate that my recovery has been relatively uneventful. I know that when I first considered a TKR I found this forum and the experiences I read about difficult and problematic recoveries gave me pause and probably delayed my surgery decision about a year. It is important to share the less problematic recoveries as well as to understand how hard it is for those who have a more difficult time.

I hope the Synvisc injection gives you some relief for your non-surgery knee and will allow you to enjoy the rest of that wonderful although short Minnesota fall. I am lucky to have a longer window for riding this fall and winter and I am hoping to take full advantage of it!

Based on my right knee TKR, the feeling does return -- more or less -- to normal, but then I am 9 months into that surgery and folks say it can be a year or so before all is healed. With my let knee, I have to concentrate on walking down stairs. During my lazy weeks, I just did the one-legged thing down stairs, but now I force myself to do a usual motion for walking down stairs. Depending on the day and how loose my knee is, it can feel ok to "ouch" but I force myself to walk down stairs this way because I think it will help in the long run.

Keep riding!
 
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After some reflection, I realize it is time to move on from bonesmart. My sincere thanks to all who have shared their experiences and my best wishes for a healthy future.
 
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