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Revision TKR Partial Revision Failure

I am feeling anxious about my upcoming appointment with the second OS revision doctor, especially since I read the summary of the first OS revision doctor:
Here is what the first one said:

"X-Ray Knee
Procedure date:
08/08/2018
Findings:
X-rays were taken of the left knee. 3 views were obtained. Probably well fixed patella and femoral components. Loosened, subsided tibial component


Problem # 1: Mechanical loosening of internal left knee prosthetic joint, initial encounter (ICD-996.41) (ICD10-T84.033A)

This is a very complicated problem because the patient has 2 potential sensitivities that in combination allow for no current options in the total joint market. Have spent some time today with her and her husband helping her understand that there is currently no non-cobalt-exposing knee available on the market with press-fit fixation. Any non-cobalt exposing knee arthroplasty (Smith&Nephew or Aesculap) would have to be cemented.

I am not especially impressed with her exam, as I would expect a knee with an allergy to have a large effusion. Therefore, I wonder whether the cobalt allergy is in fact a real thing or just a mild reactivity, possibly related to an implanted prosthesis. Probably the main cause of her current pain is the loose component.

Conversely, I'm also concerned about trying further press-fit fixation in a patient with this level of osteoporosis and osteopenia, given the fact that press-fit fixation has already not worked out well for her. And reactivity to the methyl mathacrylate is mild on these tests, and so I don't know what to make of it.

The 2 options therefore would be:
1: Revision of the tibial tray to a completely uncemented Depuy mobile bearing revision tray and sleeve construct with a fluted stem, with retention of the cobalt–containing femoral component

2: Revision of the entire construct to a fully–cemented, non-cobalt-exposing Oxinium knee arthroplasty

Pluses and minuses have been covered as noted above. I would lean toward cementing an Oxinium revision construct in her knee. She understands that if metal and cement allergy testing is to be believed, then she may always have a knee that troubles her somewhat, no matter which operation he has.

She also understands that femoral and patella component fixation would also have to be checked intra-operatively, and these would be revised as necessary

Her husband has asked whether she can just maintain the current status and not have any more surgery. Given the changes that have occurred even over the last 2 month's xrays with tibial tray subsidence, I think it would be most prudent to proceed with revision sooner rather than later so as to have less tibial bone loss to deal with. This certainly would compromise non-cemented fixation further (if she chose the non-cemented option).

Finally, she insists upon getting an Orthopedic Analysis metal allergy testing done again. This is fine with me, although am not sure how much more it would add to our decision-making. I can call her with the results."

@Josephine, what do you make up this OS revision doctor not believing in metal allergies?
 
@sistersinhim, thank you so much for asking! It was night and day comparing the two revision doctors!!!

This OS revision Dr really cared and listened to me. I gave him the above summary of the first OS revision Dr I saw and he hung on every written word. He asked me how I liked the first revision Dr I saw, and I said "I didn't!" He said, "not very warm and fuzzy, huh?" lol

I also told him that BoneSmart recommended him (and my allergist that did the metal patch testing) He was so happy and pleased! He made the medical assistant stop and log on to BoneSmart on the office computer. He does at least 200 revisions a year (I didn't think to ask if the revisions were his?)...he said, "revisions are his favorite surgeries to do!"

He also does at least 1000 TKR a year. Infection rate is "very low". Another thing that was impressive, he is sending 4 samples of bone cement (powder and liquid monomers) to my allergist to have me patch tested again for bone cement issues. My surgery is scheduled for Oct the 8th. I had a choice of a Monday or Wednesday and went for a Monday thinking he would be rested over the weekend. Is one day better than the other @Josephine?

I have a lot more questions for the forum here but I am tired and will write more tomorrow.

Oh, one other thing he said, he respects the OS that did my TKR and was shocked that he does not do revisions. He said, he will always do revisions, at least until he is 65!
 
What a fantastic appointment you had with this 2nd revisionist! He sounds wonderful! I am sure you are optimistic about your outcome with having such an experienced OS! I'm so happy for you!
 
I am so glad you found this doctor. He sounds awesome! I really believe that if we are persistent and don't give up we will find what we are looking for. And you did! :yes!:
 
There are a few things that this OS revision dr.'s office/team does differently than my original OS:
1. They require a 2½hr Joint Replacement Education Class that I do not want to attend! I am trying to get out of this class.
2. They require TED anti-embolism stockings for 2 weeks after surgery. I am on blood thinners the rest of my life and did not have to wear them with my original TKR surgery. Did fine.
3. They use Siverlon dressing post surgery and I am very allergic to adhesives, hope they can use something else?
4. I see my Dr has ordered Pregabalin 75mg PO ordered in the holding area. That is ok but I do not want to be on this medication after surgery! (too many side effects)
I will post more concerns as I think of them.
I really like this Dr.
 
1. They require a 2 1/2 hr. Joint Replacement Education Class that I do not want to attend! I am trying to get out of this class.

@Cementless Check and see if there is an online version of this class that they will let you take. My hospital offered the class online and it was such a relief not to have to physically go there and navigate to the class in pain and on a walker.
 
For my tkr surgery I was "required" to take that same type of class. I told my OS I lived 3 hours north and I wasn't coming down just for that class. They never bothered me about it again .

But we were talking about this in a different thread- not sure if it was mine but those that took it said it was a total waste of time .

I'm sure those that did will respond to your post .
 
but those that took it said it was a total waste of time .

I was a total novice in the world of total knee replacement and had no clue what I was up against. So I found the class to be very helpful. It answered a lot of my questions. Just my experience, and I respect others' experiences that may differ. :) :-) (:
 
The problem with these joint classes, IMHO and experience, is they spend a lot of time telling you about the (phony) window of opportunity, showing you a knee implant which may not even be the one your doctor will use, and I didn't see any real benefit in seeing it anyway. They also tell you a lot about PT and why you should suffer through it, which is so not true, and they answer some questions. Most of their answers were wrong as I found out later, and many of their answers were, "That's a question you need to ask your OS". Ummmm.......

If the classes included people who have had this surgery, they might have a chance at being helpful.
 
I agree with lovestocookandsew. I went to the class and took my friend who would be my caregiver. I wanted her to see what it was all about. But, I already knew a lot from being on Bonesmart 6 months before my surgery. I learned much more realistic information on this site than I did at the class. I, too, think it's a lot of hype for taking PT and working through the pain. I knew better than that from previous experience! I never had to wear the teds either, thank God! My OS knew I'd be pretty active and would be up and down enough to keep my blood moving.
 
They didn't make me do the joint class with my second knee, but said I could if I wanted to. I didn't. :heehee:
 
The RN that teaches the class called me and said I do not have to take the class!:happydance::roseshwr:
He totally understood where I was coming from and said he would make a note that we talked. If I had any questions to call him.

I hope I can convince the OS and hospital staff to let me forgo the TED hose.

@Josephine, what is your thought on the TED hose, esp. since I am on blood thinners for life (Eliquis 5 mg bid).

@sistersinhim, you said: "I never had to wear the teds either, thank God! My OS knew I'd be pretty active and would be up and down enough to keep my blood moving." Well as far as being active I will be up to the bathroom every 30 mins. because that is what will happen with all the pain meds and getting ice packs for my knee! :heehee: @lovetocookandsew, that is why I don't think the Donjoy ice machine will work for me. I won't have time to unhook all those tubes!!! :loll:Weak bladder!:bolt:


Something I found interesting is I can go on the PT Portal website and see exactly what he has planned for my revision in detail:

Assessments -
1.Mechanical loosening of internal left knee prosthetic joint, initial encounter X-Ray Interpretation Knee:. Order for Surgery: Admission Status - inpatient; Special OR
Equipment Required (List)
Frozen Section
Angled Curette Set
Curette Set
Dr. Kreuzer Revision Total Knee Extras
Drill Bit Set
Extensor Mechanism Allograft (Tibial Tuberosity
Patella Tendon
Patella and Quadriceps Tendon)
Femoral Head Quantity 2
Flexible Osteotomes (All Sizes)
Gigli Saw
Grey Revision
Innomed Knee Extraction Set
Moreland Cemented
Moreland Cementless
Osteotome Set
Power Drill and Saw
Short Synvasive Saw Blade for Component Removal
Small Frag Set
Steinman Pins
TBD Vendor Hinged Knee Instruments
TBD Vendor Revision Knee Instruments
Total Knee Instrument Set
Vise Grips
Winquist Screw Removal
Zimmer Trabecular Metal Femoral Sleeves and Cones
Zimmer Trabecular Metal Tibial Sleeves and Cones

Priority - normal;
Surgeon - Stefan Kreuzer;
Postop Medications -
Other Medications - Hibiclens shower the night before and morning of surgery Bactroban Nasal 2% Apply in each nostril q 12 starting 5 days prior to surgery for a total of 10 days Vancomycin 1.5 grams if patient is over 72kg or 1 gram if patient is less than 72 kg IVPB to be infused in holding area one hour prior to procedure
Ancef 2 grams if patient is over 70kg or 1 gram is patient is under 70kg IVPB to be infused in OR prior to incision

If patient has a rash allergy to penicillin, administer Ancef (Cefazolin) as a test/challenge dose per SCIP (Surgical Care Improvement Project) protocol. If patient has difficulty breathing with penicillin, administer ANCEF as a test/challenge dose per SCIP protocol.

Pepcid (Famotidine) 20 mg po x 1 dose to be given in holding area
Zofran 4 mg IV/PO in holding area
Celebrex 400mg in holding
Pregabalin 75mg PO
Acetaminophen 1g IV to be given after Ancef (or Clindamycin)
Dexamethasone 4mg IV following Acetaminophen
Tranexamic acid 1 gram in OR before incision and 1 gram at closing, pending no contraindications;
Facility; Surgery to be ordered - Revision Total Knee Replacement (27487);
Time frame unit - day(s);. 2.
Failed Total Joint Counseling
Aseptic Loosening Knee
 
that is why I don't think the Donjoy ice machine will work for me. I won't have time to unhook all those tubes!!! :loll:Weak bladder!
It only takes a few seconds to turn it off by pulling out the power plug, and to unclip the two connectors. I have a really small bladder (not joking-I really do and they've even tried in the past to expand it to no avail) and I never have had a problem. There are many good machines, and I wouldn't do this without one.
 
that is why I don't think the Donjoy ice machine will work for me. I won't have time to unhook all those tubes!!!
I was hooked to mine the whole time I was down. I wore pads the first couple of weeks just in case I couldn't feel I had to go or if I couldn't make it in time. I never wet them at all! The baffles are really easy to unhook. I highly recommend an ice machine of some sort.
 
Cementless....I have read your whole thread and admire your fortitude! I had a RTKR in July 2017 and had to have a patella revision on July 2, 2018. After reading your "adventure" , I am ashamed to be complaining about the mediocre pain I have in my knee right now:no-fin:. I wish you all the best with your new surgery.:thumb:
 
@Dizzy, thank you for such kind words! Please do not feel ashamed of complaining about pain, no matter how small. We all hurt in different ways and are learning from each other on this forum.
 
do you know anything about the Mako Robotic Arm assisted technology?
You can read about it here and there is usually no requirement for additional guidance probes.
Also, how high up do they place the tourniquet on a TKR?
Mid thigh or higher if they can but as high as they can go. Generally it depends upon your thigh. If it's very big, then there is a tendency for the cuff to slide down and interfere with the surgery. It's commonly about here

[Bonesmart.org] Partial Revision Failure


I plan to request sutures instead of staples (no glue). Didn't you do that Josephine?
I did. I had what is known as a subcuticular stitch which is one that runs just below the skin. But you can have 'interrupted' sutures instead

[Bonesmart.org] Partial Revision Failure


[Bonesmart.org] Partial Revision Failure


I hope, I don't have to wear TED hose. what are your thoughts on the TED hose?
You may have to wear them during the surgery and for a couple of days after. Ask about it. They're not usually a problem on varicose veins and may actually be very soothing. But I was never very much in favour of them because of this article TEDs Negative Research: Lancet 27th May 2009
This is a very complicated problem because the patient has 2 potential sensitivities that in combination allow for no current options in the total joint market.
This is true
there is currently no non-cobalt-exposing knee available on the market with press-fit fixation. Any non-cobalt exposing knee arthroplasty (Smith&Nephew or Aesculap) would have to be cemented.
I wouldn't recommend a press-fit anyway, not with your history.
I would expect a knee with an allergy to have a large effusion.
Did you say this or the doctor? Because actually it's not true although it might depend upon what kind of effusion is being referred to. I would expect a moderate or even mild effusion but not necessarily a large one.
Conversely, I'm also concerned about trying further press-fit fixation in a patient with this level of osteoporosis and osteopenia, given the fact that press-fit fixation has already not worked out well for her.
I fully agree with this statement.
And reactivity to the methyl methacrylate is mild on these tests
Reaction to MMA is almost always mild. I once did some research on allergic responses to MMA and it revealed that patient response, whilst very rare, was invariably mild. It was staff that had the worst reactions.
I think it would be most prudent to proceed with revision sooner rather than later so as to have less tibial bone loss to deal with.
I fully agree here.
He does at least 200 revisions a year (I didn't think to ask if the revisions were his?)
I very much doubt that any surgeon citing a number of surgeries would claim any that were not his.
He also does at least 1000 TKR a year. Infection rate is "very low".
That stands to reason. Ever heard the old joke
Q: Can you tell me how I get to Carnegie Hall?
A: Practice, practice, practice!​
It applies just as much to this!
Another thing that was impressive, he is sending 4 samples of bone cement (powder and liquid monomers) to my allergist to have me patch tested again for bone cement issues.
Excellent!
I had a choice of a Monday or Wednesday and went for a Monday thinking he would be rested over the weekend. Is one day better than the other @Josephine?
It depends. If said surgeon has been on call for trauma over the weekend, then maybe not. The same can apply if he has been on trauma the previous night. I've worked with surgeons who (like me as I was also on call!) worked all day in theatre, clinics and so on, then worked all night on trauma cases. One night that specially comes to mind, a Wednesday, the surgeon and I had done an all day list of surgery together then at 9pm, we started on two very bad road accidents that went on until 5.30 in the morning. Both of us were scheduled to report back at 8am. However, luckily for me, our department had a policy where, according to the number of hours we'd been up, we could call in sick the following day. But my surgeon friend had no such luck!
They use Siverlon dressing post surgery and I am very allergic to adhesives, hope they can use something else?
Don't you mean Silvercel? This is the manufacturer's scrib on it
SILVERCEL NON-ADHERENT Antimicrobial Alginate Dressing with EASYLIFT™ Precision Film Technology is a non-woven pad composed of alginate, carboxymethylcellulose (CMC) and silver coated nylon fibers, with EASYLIFT™ Precision Film Technology; laminated non-adherent wound contact layer.​
Silver is well known to inhibit infection and microbial activity. It is not an adhesive so will be held in place with bandages of some kind.


Now THAT's a long post!
 
@Josephine, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!
I have not mastered the quote thing here to respond to your answers. Let me try.
 

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