Larosser....have you not seen this thread on energy levels in the Library?
You can expect to tire like this for some time. It's normal!
You can expect to tire like this for some time. It's normal!
Bilateral TKR La's new knees (recovery diary)
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Larosser
member
Yes, I read it, it's on Josephine's list of "must reads" and it does make sense. I have to keep reminding myself, though, that loading the dishwasher is no longer a "little chore" and that going back out to the kitchen because I forgot something might really be too much work.
:hysterical: Yes!!! Now you've got it!!!! I know it's difficult to believe that we strong, independent women are this weak after surgery. 'Taint FAIR, is it!!! But.....it's only temporary. Embrace the nap. Become the Couch Queen. You'll be better for it.
OP
OP
Larosser
member
Re: La's new knees (recovery diary) Thighs, therapy and sleep
Hey, Folks, Happy Monday!
Sorry to report that I did NOT have a repeat of the marvelous night of sleep last night - back to tossing and turning, fading in and out with minimal rest. Ah, well. At least I know sleep is possible now.
This morning I went to my PCP to get my blood counts checked - normal precaution, I understand, because I'd been given blood. Routine trip, except that getting into the car, I managed to sprain the dickens out of my right thigh. Holy cow! Right now that hurts worse than anything else on my body, hands down. I had it checked and I apparently haven't done any major damage, just sprained my upper quad. *sigh* Note to self: Just because something doesn't hurt when it's done FOR you, doesn't mean it won't hurt when you do it yourself. So now in addition to icing my knees, I'm icing my quad too. And keeping a band on my walker so I can "assist" my right knee on and off of the bed or ottoman.
I am also amazed at the difference in perspective between the general doctor and my surgeon. My PCP was appalled at the bruising - my ortho thinks it looks great. My PCP wanted to talk about getting me off hydrocodone - my ortho says don't even THINK about that yet. In general, I am going with the surgeon's recommendation - this is HIS rodeo.
I also talked with my surgeon what the PT is having me do, and in general he is okay with it, although he had a few cautions: No active exercise should produce sharp pain. If it does, stop, and wait at least 24-48 hours before trying again If it hurts the next time, take that exercise off the table until I talk to him again. Do not train to exhaustion, or anywhere near it. Do one or two sets of something, then rest and ice. Do a couple of more sets later. He says he will talk to the therapist about the stretches that have been hurting me, and get back to me on whether those should continue.
I also got okay from both the GP and the OS to take valerian tea at night for sleep, or to take an OTC sleep aid. So, one way or another, I'll betcha I sleep tonight.
Phyiscal therapy was interesting today - TJ had me to do a few exercises I've been doing with a walker with a cane instead, and we walked with the cane as well. It was a fairly easy session today because of the strained thigh, and there were no passive stretches today, pending his discussion with the surgeon He DID give me some tips for getting into the car - in addition to sliding the seat back as far as it will go, lower the backrest so you can get better leverage for swinging your feet in. Also, you can use the hook end of your cane to provide an assist.
How 'bout that? I learn somthin' new every day....
:a
Hey, Folks, Happy Monday!
Sorry to report that I did NOT have a repeat of the marvelous night of sleep last night - back to tossing and turning, fading in and out with minimal rest. Ah, well. At least I know sleep is possible now.
This morning I went to my PCP to get my blood counts checked - normal precaution, I understand, because I'd been given blood. Routine trip, except that getting into the car, I managed to sprain the dickens out of my right thigh. Holy cow! Right now that hurts worse than anything else on my body, hands down. I had it checked and I apparently haven't done any major damage, just sprained my upper quad. *sigh* Note to self: Just because something doesn't hurt when it's done FOR you, doesn't mean it won't hurt when you do it yourself. So now in addition to icing my knees, I'm icing my quad too. And keeping a band on my walker so I can "assist" my right knee on and off of the bed or ottoman.
I am also amazed at the difference in perspective between the general doctor and my surgeon. My PCP was appalled at the bruising - my ortho thinks it looks great. My PCP wanted to talk about getting me off hydrocodone - my ortho says don't even THINK about that yet. In general, I am going with the surgeon's recommendation - this is HIS rodeo.
I also talked with my surgeon what the PT is having me do, and in general he is okay with it, although he had a few cautions: No active exercise should produce sharp pain. If it does, stop, and wait at least 24-48 hours before trying again If it hurts the next time, take that exercise off the table until I talk to him again. Do not train to exhaustion, or anywhere near it. Do one or two sets of something, then rest and ice. Do a couple of more sets later. He says he will talk to the therapist about the stretches that have been hurting me, and get back to me on whether those should continue.
I also got okay from both the GP and the OS to take valerian tea at night for sleep, or to take an OTC sleep aid. So, one way or another, I'll betcha I sleep tonight.
Phyiscal therapy was interesting today - TJ had me to do a few exercises I've been doing with a walker with a cane instead, and we walked with the cane as well. It was a fairly easy session today because of the strained thigh, and there were no passive stretches today, pending his discussion with the surgeon He DID give me some tips for getting into the car - in addition to sliding the seat back as far as it will go, lower the backrest so you can get better leverage for swinging your feet in. Also, you can use the hook end of your cane to provide an assist.
How 'bout that? I learn somthin' new every day....
:a
karmigirl
post-grad
La,
Sounds like things are going well for you. Keep up the good work and keep your posts coming. You have such a wonderful way with words. Hope the quad heals quickly.
Sounds like things are going well for you. Keep up the good work and keep your posts coming. You have such a wonderful way with words. Hope the quad heals quickly.
Josephine
NURSE DIRECTOR EMERITA
Well, now you've got the fatigue issue cracked, let's deal with the swelling ...
So during the day, the bottle is mostly upright, even when sitting in a chair.
But when you lay down to sleep at night, the bottle is on its side.
Need I say more?
Essentially, the human body is just a big bag of water. We are 96% water. Like a ¾ full bottle.
So during the day, the bottle is mostly upright, even when sitting in a chair.
But when you lay down to sleep at night, the bottle is on its side.
Need I say more?
OP
OP
Larosser
member
Re: La's new knees (recovery diary) 14 day evaluation
Well, two weeks ago about now I was coherent enough to realize that I'd made it through surgery. I was one happy camper!
Fourteen days later, I'm STILL a happy camper. Bilateral TKR is no joke and there is definitely discomfort involved in recovery, but it SO DEFINITELY WORTH IT! As of today, I can:
- Get in and out of a chair with minimal discomfort
- Walk around the house unassisted
- Walk to the end of the block and back using a cane
I'm still weak and sleepy, using a lot of pain meds, and there are a ton of things I can't do - yet. But I'm optimistic. I will take it slow, careful not to injure myself, but still. I'm on the good side now.
La
Well, two weeks ago about now I was coherent enough to realize that I'd made it through surgery. I was one happy camper!
Fourteen days later, I'm STILL a happy camper. Bilateral TKR is no joke and there is definitely discomfort involved in recovery, but it SO DEFINITELY WORTH IT! As of today, I can:
- Get in and out of a chair with minimal discomfort
- Walk around the house unassisted
- Walk to the end of the block and back using a cane
I'm still weak and sleepy, using a lot of pain meds, and there are a ton of things I can't do - yet. But I'm optimistic. I will take it slow, careful not to injure myself, but still. I'm on the good side now.
La
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Sounds about the same as me. I found that the weakness continued for a good while, and that fighting it was wrong, relaxing and watching telly was 
OP
OP
Larosser
member
Cutting back on painkillers?
I'd like to hear other people's experiences with this?
How long after surgery did you start cutting back on narcotic pain meds?
What caused you to do it at that time? (Doc's advice? Side effects? No pain? etc?)
How did you do it? Did you reduce the dose, extend the time between, what?
Thanks,
All
I'd like to hear other people's experiences with this?
How long after surgery did you start cutting back on narcotic pain meds?
What caused you to do it at that time? (Doc's advice? Side effects? No pain? etc?)
How did you do it? Did you reduce the dose, extend the time between, what?
Thanks,
All
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Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
When I felt I didn't need them any more -- effectively by simply forgetting to take them.
When I felt I didn't need them any more -- effectively by simply forgetting to take them.
carousel66
graduate
Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
I would say pretty much on schedule for the first 4 weeks although I made some adjustments (I had long term time release and short acting meds)
I would say that sometime between 8-10 weeks I was no longer taking them during the day unless I had a BIG work our or outing, but still might take some at nigh if I was feeling achy.
now 4 months out, I bet in the past 4 weeks I have taken 1/2 a 5/500 vicodin maybe 6 of 10 times??? but thinking about it I don't think I have taken a in the last week maybe longer? I am walking a 5K Friday night and I can PROMISE you I will be taking pain meds to help me through this adventure if not during after the walk!
but for me sort of like Roy I just forgot to take them, and sort of let how I was feeling dictate what I was taking starting sometime between 8-10 weeks.
I see NO REASON to be in unnecessary pain!
also I did not really talk to my doc about it, but cut back on the amount of medication (for example if I was taking 2 tabs per dose, I might take one, then a 1/2 etc.) as well as how often I took it. Sort of just tried to listen to my body.
I would say pretty much on schedule for the first 4 weeks although I made some adjustments (I had long term time release and short acting meds)
I would say that sometime between 8-10 weeks I was no longer taking them during the day unless I had a BIG work our or outing, but still might take some at nigh if I was feeling achy.
now 4 months out, I bet in the past 4 weeks I have taken 1/2 a 5/500 vicodin maybe 6 of 10 times??? but thinking about it I don't think I have taken a in the last week maybe longer? I am walking a 5K Friday night and I can PROMISE you I will be taking pain meds to help me through this adventure if not during after the walk!
but for me sort of like Roy I just forgot to take them, and sort of let how I was feeling dictate what I was taking starting sometime between 8-10 weeks.
I see NO REASON to be in unnecessary pain!
also I did not really talk to my doc about it, but cut back on the amount of medication (for example if I was taking 2 tabs per dose, I might take one, then a 1/2 etc.) as well as how often I took it. Sort of just tried to listen to my body.
Josephine
NURSE DIRECTOR EMERITA
Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
There is only ONE reason to reduce or stop taking pain meds and that is no pain!
Any other reason is not sensible. It's what they are for.
There is only ONE reason to reduce or stop taking pain meds and that is no pain!
Any other reason is not sensible. It's what they are for.
efoltyn
new member
Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
In my case, 4 years ago, I started to get away from the Oxycontin after 4-5 weeks I also really wanted the freedom to drive again). At that point with BTKR for me, I no longer regularly needed them. I would occasionally take one at night. Remember that everyone will be different. The big thing is to continue icing down and elevate after exercise and don't overdo it. It isn't worth a setback. Everyone's body will heal differently and react to pain differently.
Good luck,
In my case, 4 years ago, I started to get away from the Oxycontin after 4-5 weeks I also really wanted the freedom to drive again). At that point with BTKR for me, I no longer regularly needed them. I would occasionally take one at night. Remember that everyone will be different. The big thing is to continue icing down and elevate after exercise and don't overdo it. It isn't worth a setback. Everyone's body will heal differently and react to pain differently.
Good luck,
Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
I know you are probably looking for some idea of how long you'll need to take your pain meds, but please don't try to use anyone's comments as a guide for you own situation. Your recovery is unique and as long as you're having pain and/or swelling, you'll need some type of pain medication. Your own body will tell you when it no longer needs them. As others have said, you'll just naturally forget to take them at the regular time.
I know you are probably looking for some idea of how long you'll need to take your pain meds, but please don't try to use anyone's comments as a guide for you own situation. Your recovery is unique and as long as you're having pain and/or swelling, you'll need some type of pain medication. Your own body will tell you when it no longer needs them. As others have said, you'll just naturally forget to take them at the regular time.
OP
OP
Larosser
member
Re: La's new knees (recovery diary) Insurance is a pain!
Hi, everyone! Well, it's day 15 post surgery for me, and I have a few things to report.
My flexion numbers are 101 degrees on the left and 105 on the right - I think the baker's cyst on the left is impeding progress a bit. For some reason, TJ didn't measure extension today - I will ask him on Friday. I am feeling pretty good about my knees and my mobility, that sprain in my right thigh is healing, and tomorrow, McQ and I are going to find some place to walk a bit. The weather here has been wet, windy and hideous, so outside's not a great option, but I really do want to move a bit!
Also, got this happy news: I am now allowed to sleep on my side with my knees bent! I haven't heard much about this from others, but my PT team called that a no-no. Now I'm free to sleep on my side with my knees flexed and a pillow between, which is my normal sleeping position. I think this is going to be GREAT for my sleep patterns! The only thing I'm not allowed to do is sleep on my back with a pillow under my knees, and I don't think I'll miss that much.
I am experimenting with my pain meds a bit. Still taking every 4 hours during the day, but on alternate doses, I take one hydrocodone and two advil rather than two hydrocodone. I have slightly more pain at the end of those cycles, but I think it may be worth it - I am less woozy during the day, my legs are are less twitchy, and the constipation less severe. May be an okay trade - I'll continue for a few days and see how it goes.
On a somewhat related note, I had an infuriating experience with the insurance company today. This morning, I put in a refill request for pain pills, after talking to my ortho about it yesterday. He'd said there was no need to start scaling back yet, but if I wanted to try, he suggested the rotation that I described above. In any case, I needed a refill for today, so I requested it this morning.
This afternoon when I called, I was told it was "on hold". The doctor didn't approve?, I asked, flabbergasted. (Remember, I just talked to him yesterday). No, says the pharmacy, it's the insurance company. They say it's too soon to refill.
So I get on the phone with them and ask politely, "What the hell?". "You just filled this on the 18th", they say. "Yes, and it's a five day prescription." (Silence. Finger counting, I suppose.)
Then she starts in on a lecture about how this is a controlled substance and it can't be refilled too frequently. I interrupted by saying, "I am taking them as prescribed by the doctor. Are you overriding the doctors prescription?"
"Well, no, we are just trying to ensure that you are taking them properly."
"Well, the instructions say I'm to take one or two every four hours..."
"So that's four doses a day...."
"No, it's six."
"Okay, six pills a day..."
"No, twelve pills, six doses..."
"Okay, for 5 days, that's....sixty pills. Oh, my goodness! You're out!"
At last, the light dawns.
??!!!!???!
It actually took a manager about three levels up to fix this shambles, which as far as I can tell, occurred either because a) insurance reps can't count b) insurance reps feel that pain killers are unnecessary or c) insurance reps get a commission everytime a subscriber doesn't get drugs.
This is so vexing! Why is the insurance company even in this???? Isn't really up to the doctor to control the prescription, and the pharmacist the dispensation? How does the insurance company get in the center?
If they are going to be involved, shouldn't they have called me rather than just leaving me me to find out that the prescription had been denied? And when I called them, they couldn't even tell me when they thought it would be okay to fill it! Arrrgh!
Thank goodness that's straightened out! But still, what a pain. The insurance company, I mean. Not my knees.
La
Hi, everyone! Well, it's day 15 post surgery for me, and I have a few things to report.
My flexion numbers are 101 degrees on the left and 105 on the right - I think the baker's cyst on the left is impeding progress a bit. For some reason, TJ didn't measure extension today - I will ask him on Friday. I am feeling pretty good about my knees and my mobility, that sprain in my right thigh is healing, and tomorrow, McQ and I are going to find some place to walk a bit. The weather here has been wet, windy and hideous, so outside's not a great option, but I really do want to move a bit!
Also, got this happy news: I am now allowed to sleep on my side with my knees bent! I haven't heard much about this from others, but my PT team called that a no-no. Now I'm free to sleep on my side with my knees flexed and a pillow between, which is my normal sleeping position. I think this is going to be GREAT for my sleep patterns! The only thing I'm not allowed to do is sleep on my back with a pillow under my knees, and I don't think I'll miss that much.
I am experimenting with my pain meds a bit. Still taking every 4 hours during the day, but on alternate doses, I take one hydrocodone and two advil rather than two hydrocodone. I have slightly more pain at the end of those cycles, but I think it may be worth it - I am less woozy during the day, my legs are are less twitchy, and the constipation less severe. May be an okay trade - I'll continue for a few days and see how it goes.
On a somewhat related note, I had an infuriating experience with the insurance company today. This morning, I put in a refill request for pain pills, after talking to my ortho about it yesterday. He'd said there was no need to start scaling back yet, but if I wanted to try, he suggested the rotation that I described above. In any case, I needed a refill for today, so I requested it this morning.
This afternoon when I called, I was told it was "on hold". The doctor didn't approve?, I asked, flabbergasted. (Remember, I just talked to him yesterday). No, says the pharmacy, it's the insurance company. They say it's too soon to refill.
So I get on the phone with them and ask politely, "What the hell?". "You just filled this on the 18th", they say. "Yes, and it's a five day prescription." (Silence. Finger counting, I suppose.)
Then she starts in on a lecture about how this is a controlled substance and it can't be refilled too frequently. I interrupted by saying, "I am taking them as prescribed by the doctor. Are you overriding the doctors prescription?"
"Well, no, we are just trying to ensure that you are taking them properly."
"Well, the instructions say I'm to take one or two every four hours..."
"So that's four doses a day...."
"No, it's six."
"Okay, six pills a day..."
"No, twelve pills, six doses..."
"Okay, for 5 days, that's....sixty pills. Oh, my goodness! You're out!"
At last, the light dawns.
??!!!!???!
It actually took a manager about three levels up to fix this shambles, which as far as I can tell, occurred either because a) insurance reps can't count b) insurance reps feel that pain killers are unnecessary or c) insurance reps get a commission everytime a subscriber doesn't get drugs.
This is so vexing! Why is the insurance company even in this???? Isn't really up to the doctor to control the prescription, and the pharmacist the dispensation? How does the insurance company get in the center?
If they are going to be involved, shouldn't they have called me rather than just leaving me me to find out that the prescription had been denied? And when I called them, they couldn't even tell me when they thought it would be okay to fill it! Arrrgh!
Thank goodness that's straightened out! But still, what a pain. The insurance company, I mean. Not my knees.
La
Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
Hello Larosser,
I didn't cut back on pain meds, I let my body just decide whether I needed them or not.. If you hurt, take them! If you don't hurt you won't even think of them! I admit that I worried too, and I even Googled for signs of addiction. I guess us normal people worry about it and people who abuse them don't worry about it. I would find that..."hey, I haven't had a pain pill for 6 hours!" Didn't even think about it, eventually that was 8 hours, 12 hours and so on. Till finally I just didn't take them anymore. Let your body decide. Too often I think that people feel guilty for taking them and get off too early. Just listen to your body! :doggieshmooze:
Hello Larosser,
I didn't cut back on pain meds, I let my body just decide whether I needed them or not.. If you hurt, take them! If you don't hurt you won't even think of them! I admit that I worried too, and I even Googled for signs of addiction. I guess us normal people worry about it and people who abuse them don't worry about it. I would find that..."hey, I haven't had a pain pill for 6 hours!" Didn't even think about it, eventually that was 8 hours, 12 hours and so on. Till finally I just didn't take them anymore. Let your body decide. Too often I think that people feel guilty for taking them and get off too early. Just listen to your body! :doggieshmooze:
Campervan
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Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
Hi Larosser,
I never had narcotics, so I can't give you any idea on that. I did have Voltaren (anti-inflam) and Paracetemol and Aspirin plus Gabapentin only the time in hospital. I stopped the Voltaren after a couple of weeks post surgery but as soon as the Aspirin finished I started to get stiff and more pain. So I started the Voltaren again at the beginning of this week and it has really helped.
Everybody is different, so just listen to what your body tells you and the pain you are experiencing.
Good luck.
Hi Larosser,
I never had narcotics, so I can't give you any idea on that. I did have Voltaren (anti-inflam) and Paracetemol and Aspirin plus Gabapentin only the time in hospital. I stopped the Voltaren after a couple of weeks post surgery but as soon as the Aspirin finished I started to get stiff and more pain. So I started the Voltaren again at the beginning of this week and it has really helped.
Everybody is different, so just listen to what your body tells you and the pain you are experiencing.
Good luck.
referee54
Former BoneSmart staff member
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Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
I was on Oxycontin for four weeks; i was worried about the issues of addiction, but my OS was not concerned at all; he told me that I was taking my pain meds for a valid reason and that I would know when to stop taking them.
I would advise you to take your pain meds to stay on top of the pain as long as you are having issues witgh the pain---and remember,---stiffness is pain, too.
Remember, everyone is different and their pain med needs are different, too. If you are still in pain and NSAIDs cannot handle it, you need to keep taking the meds that you are on.
When it was time to get off of the pain meds, I cut out the pain meds unless I needed them for PT or afterwards. Eventually, no pain meds at all.
I was on Oxycontin for four weeks; i was worried about the issues of addiction, but my OS was not concerned at all; he told me that I was taking my pain meds for a valid reason and that I would know when to stop taking them.
I would advise you to take your pain meds to stay on top of the pain as long as you are having issues witgh the pain---and remember,---stiffness is pain, too.
Remember, everyone is different and their pain med needs are different, too. If you are still in pain and NSAIDs cannot handle it, you need to keep taking the meds that you are on.
When it was time to get off of the pain meds, I cut out the pain meds unless I needed them for PT or afterwards. Eventually, no pain meds at all.
OP
OP
Larosser
member
Re: Cutting back on painkillers?
Thanks for all the input, y'all. RIght now, I'm less concerned about about addiction than I am the side effects. The hydrocodone makes me woozy, makes my legs twitch and constipates me, so I'd like to take as little as possible - balance the pain against the other unpleasant effects. Right now, for every other dose, I'm using one hydrocodone and a couple of anti inflammatories. So far, it's tolerable. I'll stay with this program for a few days and see how it works for me.
La
Thanks for all the input, y'all. RIght now, I'm less concerned about about addiction than I am the side effects. The hydrocodone makes me woozy, makes my legs twitch and constipates me, so I'd like to take as little as possible - balance the pain against the other unpleasant effects. Right now, for every other dose, I'm using one hydrocodone and a couple of anti inflammatories. So far, it's tolerable. I'll stay with this program for a few days and see how it works for me.
La
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