TKR erichknipp's Recovery Thread

I respect your surgeon's viewpoint about healing, but we find this is not always good advice for everyone to push for certain numbers by a certain time. Over the years we've seen many patients who react to aggressive therapy with swelling and pain. This creates a "hot" inflamed joint that actually IS likely to develop not scar tissue, but arthrofibrosis. Some people tend to refer to this condition as "scar tissue," but it's not at all like the important scar tissue your body creates as part of the healing process. And arthrofibrisis tends to be more of a problem on knees that have had a lot of surgery or following revision surgery. You are not in either of those categories.

I suggest you do some reading on some of the threads here in the recovery forum where people have tried to push themselves and only found things improving when they backed off a bit and let their knee have time to heal first.

If you read our tab at the top of the page on Wound Healing, you'll see the physical tissue repair process that must take place.

I will also tell you that many of our patients obtain ROM well beyond the first few months of recovery. We do not see evidence of a "window of opportunity" where your knee will freeze up at a particular point, never to gain any more bend.

Please consider the other side of the coin from what your surgeon is telling you. Not everyone in the orthopedic community shares his viewpoint. There is no "one size fits all" recovery. Each of us is unique and recovers at our body's own speed.

That said, we certainly are not suggesting that you do nothing in terms of exercise. We want our BoneSmarties to listen to their bodies and respond accordingly as they proceed through any exercise or therapy program. Some people can be more aggressive with their therapy and that's great. They might give their knee a pretty good workout and not be sore or swollen then next day. Perfect. But, if you find yourself hurting during exercise or in the 24 hours following a therapy session, then that's too much for you at that point. You should scale back to more gentle movements for shorter periods of time for a while. Make your activity and exercise increases in slow increments. Do a lot of gentle bending and stretching throughout each day. Do some turns on a stationary bike if you have one. Gradually build up your walking. Therapy is best done as a gradual progression, paying attention to each session and how your body feels afterwards.

This is why we recommend that you not take pain medications just prior to therapy. When your pain response is masked, it's too easy to overdo things and not realize it. It's difficult to read your body when you don't have access to any pain signals at all.

I realize you'll make the choice that you feel is best. Just know that if the aggressive approach doesn't seem to be working too well, that you have options. Please don't feel threatened by an MUA. You have the right to say yes or no to that procedure at any point in time. You are not even a week out of surgery and it's way too soon to be talking about an MUA anyway. Focus more on how your body feels and letting it have some time to heal properly. You know your body better than anyone and you are a partner in your recovery WITH your surgeon. It's okay to tell him when something isn't working well for you so you can both make appropriate adjustments.
 
Please consider the other side of the coin from what your surgeon is telling you. Not everyone in the orthopedic community shares his viewpoint.
My surgeon is one with a different point of view from yours, @erichknipp .
He doesn't allow any formal PT at all for the first month after a knee replacement. He says your knee needs that time, to start on its journey of healing. For that month, we rest, ice and elevate our leg, and walk around the house. The walking is our exercise and we increase it a little each week.

After that month, we just go to PT once every 2 weeks, where we are shown a few new exercises to do at home each day.

His patients all do well and achieve good Range of Motion (ROM), as I did, and he hasn't had to do a manipulation to help with ROM for the past 5 years. I think that speaks for itself.

I have followed my surgeon's protocol for my three knee replacements - a PKR that lasted for 11 years, a revision to a TKR that is 8 years old, and a TKR on the other knee that is now 5 years old. My knees are strong and reliable. They have good ROM and I can do anything I want to with them.
I did very little formal exercise, but I used my knees during my normal activities of everyday life. I certainly didn't lie around doing nothing, but I never pushed my knees to the point of pain.

I didn't worry about ROM, because I could see it was increasing gradually, as my knee healed and its swelling went down.
 
Congrats on the new knee and that you are doing well. Did you have general anesthesia?

Yes, along with both a spinal and a femoral nerve block. I didn't die :)


I'm glad you didn't die . Keep progressing and keeping us updated. I'm waiting on my call for a new date and still trying to gather as much information as possible.
 
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I was blessed to have a surgeon that never pushed PT. He gave me a prescription for it, which I threw away and never went. When I went for my 3 return checkups, all he wanted was to see what my knee would do. Never one question about PT! Of course, he knew I was a single lady that had to take care of myself, so obviously he trusted that I would not be just laying around all the time.

After 12 knee surgeries, I know that I do not need PT, and neither does anyone else if they do their own daily activities. My knee recovered just fine all on its own with only my daily activities. I didn't have the terrible swelling or agonizing pain that so many have after taking formal PT either. I knew the Bonesmart way worked before Bonesmart was even thought of. My surgeries started in the early 80s and I never went to PT even back then. I just didn't see the need for it. Bonesmart was formed around 2004. By then I had already had 6 knee surgeries and rehabbed the Bonesmart way!
 
So one week out, my knee is progressing. The joint feels amazing - smooth movement without pain, including going up and down stairs. I can go straight down the stairs, leading with the right leg. Prior to my TKR, I had to go down stairs sideways, so this is awesome.

the swelling on the other hand is something else. The knee and thigh are swollen, big time. The thigh is also sore and bruised, I presume from the mechanical tourniquet. At this point the pain I am having, and it is considerable, is when I try to bend the knee past 70 or 80 degrees. As I said, the pain isn’t from the joint, which feels great, but from the lower thigh/upper knee where the swollen area is compressed by the bend. How long before that gets better? I am confident that without this swelling, I would be bending 120+ degrees.

I am elevating and icing appropriately BTW.
 
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Yes, erich, it is the swelling that's preventing your knee from bending further. But don't worry, because your knee is doing fine. That swelling is also protecting your knee's wounded soft tissues from being asked to do too much before they've had a chance to heal.

Remember that your knee has been through major surgery that caused a lot of trauma. It isn't reasonable to expect it to do everything yet. It needs gentle treatment and time to recover. And this is a year-long recovery, no matter how much you wish it could be faster.

Getting a good bend isn't the be-all and end-all of recovery. When your knee hurts if you try to make it bend more than 80-90 degrees, it's telling you that is as far as it has healed enough to go, for now - so don't try to force it. Treat it gently and give it time, and it will bend beautifully, as long as you don't upset it by asking it to do too much, too soon

It's not exercising that gets you your Range of Motion (ROM) - it's time. Time to recover, time for swelling and pain to settle, and time to heal. Your knee has the potential to achieve good ROM right from the start, but it's prevented from doing so by swelling and pain. As it heals and the swelling goes down, your ROM (both flexion and extension) will gradually increase.

There's no need to rush to get ROM because it can continue to improve for a year, or even much longer, after a knee replacement. There isn't any deadline you have to meet:
Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
 
Great report!! It is amazing how that bone on bone pain is gone, immediately!

The swelling really is something else. My knee looks like a watermelon and I’ve hardly moved. For my last surgery, the bend Felt like it came slowly but it pretty good by 6 weeks. It all takes longer than you expect. It’s hard to be patient!!
 
I am elevating and icing appropriately BTW.
Icing and elevating have been proven to be a very effective way of reducing pain and swelling. This advice has come from tens of thousands of surgery recovery patients' experiences. Icing and elevating also help to reduce the use of pain meds, which the doctors are very hesitant to prescribe for over a week or so of use. A less swollen knee will bend more.
 
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I understand the thinking around ice and elevation. I am growing frustrated by limited ROM. I am wondering when this swelling will go down.
 
I am wondering when this swelling will go down.
That's a loaded question. It depends on many things. First off, the individual, some swell much longer than others. Another reason for swelling depends on how much you are using your knee. In my early days, the first 4 months or so, when I did extra things my knee wasn't ready for, I had increased swelling. When I rested and did the I&E, the swelling would go down. This is a learning process. Your knee will teach you what causes it to swell and hurt more. Listening to it and 'obeying' it will lead to a much easier recovery normally.

Swelling can be caused by sitting with your leg down or even standing in one place for too long. Add to that, too much walking at your early stage is a factor in swelling. Watch what you do and how your knee reacts. As I said, it's a learning process.
 
Could it be the blood thinners? I am on 4mg Xaralto daily.
 
I have no idea. Have you googled it or asked your doctor?
 
Yes, he said it could be, but was noncommittal as it seems he has had other patients with less swelling.
 
I hope you can get it under control. A swollen knee is so uncomfortable.
 
Ok next question. The last couple days I have walked about 2500 steps each day. This isn’t much, but it has felt like a fair bit given my circumstances. I can tolerate about 10 minutes at a time being on my feet. Even managed to help cook a little tonight. Anyway, I am noticing some soreness in my right calf. Obviously I am on high alert for blood clots, but besides a little soreness I don’t see other symptoms of a clot. Is the level of walking I’ve been doing enough to provoke the calf soreness?
 
My calf was extremely sore after my surgery. It took a while to settle down. My OS said it was probably from the movements in the OR when he was checking out the implant movement. As long as your calf doesn't get red and hot, then it's probably OK. With your new knee you are walking differently than you were before. That will cause aches and pains all over in different areas at different times. These replacements affect the whole body, not just the knee. We even suggest buying new shoes since the old wear patterns will be different than what you need now.
 
2500 steps a day 9 days after a TKR seems like a recipe for more pain and swelling. Did you read the recovery guidelines, and especially the activity progression one? I'm going to try to be gentle about this, but what are you thinking? You need to allow your knee the time and TLC it needs to recover. Trying to force it to do things it's just not ready for will only get you more of what you don't want.......pain and swelling. At 9 days out you should be taking short 5-ish minute walks around the house every hour or so, then go back to ice and elevate that knee. Maybe it'd help if you knew what your surgeon did to the knee during surgery-watching a video of an actual surgery might be helpful for you.

There's no need to try to force your recovery-it'll happen with time and forcing it to go faster will actually make it recover more slowly as it'll need to recover from both the surgery and the extra problems created by being overworked before it's ready. Just because you're in a younger age group doesn't mean your knee will recover any faster than those of us in older groups; the recovery is going to take what it takes and nothing you can do will make that knee recover faster than it wants to do. Sorry to inform you your knee's in charge right now, not you.

So, to answer your question, your knee will take, on average, a full year to recover, but most people are feeling a lot better somewhere around three months. Even then, you need to listen to the signals your knee will give you. If it's not ready for an activity, it'll let you know in no uncertain terms, and you should then back off that activity for a time and revisit it at a later date. Sometimes it'll throw an instant hissy-fit, other times it'll remain silent until the next day and then throw a fit at that time. This recovery takes a mountain of patience, and your knee will thank you for giving it the time it needs to recover without over doing things.

We don't want you to become a couch potato; on the contrary, we want you moving around each day, and a little bit more each day as time goes on, but there are no brownie points for getting from point A to point B faster than Joe Blow up the street.
 
Erichknipp,
You are a little over a week out from your TKR, swelling and ROM limitations are to be expected.
Swelling and decreased ROM can also happen if you do too much, it is your knee's way of letting you know to slow down and give it a chance to heal.
With time and healing your swelling will go down, and your ROM will appear, it has been there right from the start.
 
Could it be the blood thinners? I am on 4mg Xaralto daily.
No, it's not the blood thinners. It's because you are so early in recovery.

Your knee is trying to have a normal recovery. It has been through major surgery that caused a lot of trauma. It's not the sort of surgery you can bounce back from in a couple of weeks, no matter how young and fit you were beforehand.

Your knee is going to take as long as it needs to, to recover, and there is nothing you can do to speed that up. You're going to need a huge dose of patience, or you will spend a great deal of time feeling frustrated.
 
Take it easy.. 2500 steps is what you get when you take a 5-10 minute walk around the house, in between elevating and icing 12-14 hours a day. I am not doing anything excessive. My physical therapist is similarly not pushing me, just encouraging me and helping to identify the best exercises. I would of course love to be further along, who wouldn’t, but don’t project impatience on me. I ask questions because this is a new experience for me, not to challenge anyone.
 

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