MUA Ruby's Tuesday--July 11th, 2017<
- Thread starter Ruby9297
- Start date
United States
Happydale
senior
Hi Ruby, I haven't been on BoneSmart for quite awhile. I'm sorry to get back on and find out all this bad news on your thread! You have received lots and lots of great advice about how to move forward. The only thing I want to add is the possibility of finding a different PT, maybe even at a different facility. Before my first TKR, I actually went around interviewing PTs. They were all open to talking with me, and it was pretty quick to identify those I didn't want! My first PT was a lady who had had a hip replacement, and believe me, she was understanding and supportive and gentle. Unfortunately she has moved away. My next one, Colleen, is also a middle age woman who has an understanding that this is not rehabbing from an athletic injury! Last week I went in after my overly-active Labor Day weekend, and she immediately diagnosed my swelling. She suggested ankle pumps, elevating with my back flat on the couch and my legs way up in the air. She said she wasn't going to do any knee bending, because that would just make it worse. She took care of my recurring back issue, massaged some knots out of the quad muscles in both of my legs, and gave me some advice about which exercises to ease into at home. All of that really helped me. She makes me feel like I'm not alone with my recovery, and she's like a coach or mentor pulling for me in a supportive and caring manner. If you also had someone like Colleen, I think it could be helpful. Barring that, I agree with others that it's best to lay off therapy.
You WILL end up with a knee that bends, and you WILL get past this recovery. Promise. In the meantime, hang in there and be kind to yourself.
You WILL end up with a knee that bends, and you WILL get past this recovery. Promise. In the meantime, hang in there and be kind to yourself.
Lil Cyborg
junior member
bertschb
member
Well, I wasn't trying to impress anybody but thanks. I just wanted to show you that there is light at the end of this horrible, dark tunnel. I haven't struggled anywhere near as mightily as you have but I did spend months wondering if my ROM would ever improve. At four months I couldn't even do one rotation on the pedals on my bike. I'm living proof that you can be stuck with horrible ROM for months and regain that ROM eventually - without doing anything. Keep your chin up. It will get better for you!
@liam2015 - I shot the video at Mt Bachelor in central Oregon. About 20 miles from my home.
Oh Ruby I feel so terrible for all you have gone through and what you are still going through. It is so wrong for others especially those who call themselves professionals to treat people so poorly. If I were a mean person I would wish future TKRs with slow painful recoveries on all of them. Perhaps then they would have an inkling about the length and depth that this surgery affects a person.
I only hope you take the advice that has been offered here and become a strong advocate for yourself! When you are in charge you will accept the type of treatment that you feel in your own heart will be best for you!
Good lucky my dear! Please keep posting! We are here for you whatever direction you decide to take.
I only hope you take the advice that has been offered here and become a strong advocate for yourself! When you are in charge you will accept the type of treatment that you feel in your own heart will be best for you!
Good lucky my dear! Please keep posting! We are here for you whatever direction you decide to take.
Fire wolf
graduate
Hoping today is a better day for you!! 
OP
OP
Ruby9297
senior
As always, you've all been very kind. I spent probably 98% of the day in my recliner. I'm feeling quite hopeless about this situation. For the first time since surgery, I got in the swimming pool, with, the help of my husband. I got out pretty quickly because even water walking was painful. My knee is still painful and swollen from "trying harder" and now I'm suffering the consequences.
Sent from my iPad using BoneSmart Forum
Sent from my iPad using BoneSmart Forum
Sweet Ruby, You do need to stop "Trying harder".
Give yourself a month of no exercises, but lots of rest, ice and elevation, so that your knee has a chance to calm down again.
Working hard at exercising obviously hasn't worked well for you, so it's time to try something different.
Give yourself a month of no exercises, but lots of rest, ice and elevation, so that your knee has a chance to calm down again.
Working hard at exercising obviously hasn't worked well for you, so it's time to try something different.
Water walking is awful on a new knee. It's just like using weights on it. The water adds much more resistance than air walking. Please don't do anything but ADL for at least the next month, then you will start to see less swelling and more ROM. You can not increase you ROM with that swelling. And please don't let your OS talk you into a MUA. You are way too early in your recovery to need one. Your knee needs to heal and get rid of that swelling! Love that new knee and treat it will lots of TLC!
OP
OP
Ruby9297
senior
Well, that was about the most demoralizing experience. I do believe my OS is one arrogant orifice! After him raising his voice at me because I told him he was shutting me down (because he shut me down when I tried to express my concerns) we left with no resolution. I have asked my PCP to get me a referral to a different doctor, which she did, but also warned that no OS would take me on within 90 days of surgery. My OS wants to do surgery on Monday, the 18th, so I told him I preferred not to spend my birthday getting a MUA. So he tentatively scheduled me for the 25th, and talked tripe about windows of opportunity, etc.
Sent from my iPad using BoneSmart Forum
Sent from my iPad using BoneSmart Forum
Please don't go for that MUA. You don't need it and your surgeon can't force you to have it. I agree with your assessment of his character. Arrogant so-and-so!
Remember two things:
1. You are the only person with the right to say what will happen to your knee. No one is allowed to do anything to it without your consent. Saying no to therapy - am I allowed to?
2. There is no such thing as a window of opportunity, no deadline you have to meet. That's an old-fashioned myth that should have died long ago. ROM can continue to improve for a year, or even much longer, after a knee replacement. Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
Remember two things:
1. You are the only person with the right to say what will happen to your knee. No one is allowed to do anything to it without your consent. Saying no to therapy - am I allowed to?
2. There is no such thing as a window of opportunity, no deadline you have to meet. That's an old-fashioned myth that should have died long ago. ROM can continue to improve for a year, or even much longer, after a knee replacement. Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
Pheebs52
big-cheese
@Ruby9297, I'm so sorry to read all that you've been through and agree with all the sage advice you've been given. I'll just add one other idea; The only thing you need to exercise immediately is your "No," muscle. Just practice saying "No," to all forms of exercise, doctors, PT's and MUA's. Look in the mirror and say "No," until your jaw is tired of saying it. A strong "No Muscle," will work wonders for you right now. It will restore the balance of power within yourself and will free you from the misguided expectations of others. Your confidence will be boosted. The world will suddenly become a kinder, gentler place in which your knee actually has the opportunity to heal and be the knee you'd like it to be. The power of "No," is formidable and only you can exercise it. Work it for all it's worth Ruby, ' cuz it's worth it's weight in gold!
Lil Cyborg
junior member
@Ruby9297 Okay, you have tried exercising over and over again, going in the pool, dealing with an arrogant doctor, and being subjected to unsympathetic physical therapists. You have gotten lots of advice and suggestions from your friends on this forum. Now, the big questions: What do YOU think? What do YOU feel you should do? What sounds the best to YOU? When it comes down to it, YOU are the most important part of the knee equation. I know it can be hard to make decisions based on everyone else's advice, whether they are doctors or other knee replacement folks or friends or relatives. When we have pain and things are not going the way we want them to, it is especially hard. Sometimes, we have to pause, and look around for sign posts. I have usually believed that if I do not see a sign post pointing me in one direction at the moment, I should relax, and stay where I am. A sign post usually pops up in time.
If you are unsure about a MUA, you don't have to do it. I know you can get a second opinion about a MUA despite what your doctor says. You can rest, ice, and elevate your knee and do nothing else but let it heal. I can't tell you what to do, but I don't want to see you do something because you have been made to feel afraid or have been bullied or because you are desperate. Maybe take a few days to relax, think about things, and follow your gut. I'll bet you that your gut instinct will be the right direction for you!
Sending you all good and kind thoughts.
If you are unsure about a MUA, you don't have to do it. I know you can get a second opinion about a MUA despite what your doctor says. You can rest, ice, and elevate your knee and do nothing else but let it heal. I can't tell you what to do, but I don't want to see you do something because you have been made to feel afraid or have been bullied or because you are desperate. Maybe take a few days to relax, think about things, and follow your gut. I'll bet you that your gut instinct will be the right direction for you!
Sending you all good and kind thoughts.
Polkadot
graduate
Hi, Ruby.
So many people have said so many things that I wanted to, and I am late to the party, as usual, so a big "ditto" to what's been said already! I still want to underscore some points because I feel that you and I are sisters-in-experience. I found this site at about 8 weeks, I think, and I was in a very similar place to you, with the exception that I had already been bullied into an MUA. My heart goes out to you, and I hear echoes of my own struggles within yours, especially in the emotional realm.
@Fire wolf has addressed this loneliness quite well in a previous post to you. I have felt this, more on than off, for this entire journey. Sometimes it brings tears to my eyes when my DH walks in from work, and I'm sitting, stuck in the recliner. I see a shadow of disappointment pass over his face before he cheerily asks how my day went and can he get me anything? It's mighty hard to be humble and accept the role of recuperee. Mighty hard. Did I say Mighty. Hard? There is such loneliness in dealing with something mostly in silence while life moves on about you. It's especially hard when a loved one, who wants only the best for you, is trying mightily to experience things with you, and he can only experience a fraction of what you are going through. I have no answers to the loneliness--but know that I understand.
You also said that you wish your loved ones would get on BoneSmart, but that they don't have the time or the inclination. Recently, I have started bookmarking peoples' posts where they talk about similar issues, hurdles, or milestones to those I'm going through. My husband will read short ones, and it helps him understand better. He is not so good with reading articles, but the personal examples seem to resonate with him. (At an opportune moment, I hand him my iPad with the bookmarked passage onscreen.)
This has been my life since finding BoneSmart. Don't do it, Ruby; Just. Don't. Do. It. It's a vicious cycle with teeth that bite you. It's a hamster wheel of remorse.
It's a circle of cr--p. It's a...well, you fill in the blank. Resist, resist, resist! Throw out the No Pain, No Gain thing once and for all! I feel I can say this because I have gone back to the manic exercising and not listening to my knee so many times, and I have been in the same boat with you. It serves us badly and regresses our progress, which, for me, is more detrimental to the psyche and the emotions than it is to my knee. 
I suggest you throw out the stories about people who didn't do what they were supposed to do and had bad outcomes. You KNOW you tried to do everything "they" told you to do, and did it work? No! I exercised my butt off the first 5 weeks and had an MUA anyway.
After the MUA, I increased the exercise with multiple bouts of tears every day. The doctor and other medical personnel were always suspicious and blaming. So I would go home from an appointment, grit my teeth, and do more. 
Did it result in more ROM or greater freedom of movement? While the MUA gave me more ROM, the truth is that the manaiacal exercising just increased swelling. Did I learn from that? Well, I'm still learning...still feeling guilty from time to time and push too hard; still find it difficult to trust in the gentler way. But I'm here to testify that the aggressive way did not work for me.
Rest, Ruby. You deserve it. Trying harder has gotten you a big fat throat of unshed tears and unheard screams. Let it go. You can do this.
Walk on!
So many people have said so many things that I wanted to, and I am late to the party, as usual, so a big "ditto" to what's been said already! I still want to underscore some points because I feel that you and I are sisters-in-experience. I found this site at about 8 weeks, I think, and I was in a very similar place to you, with the exception that I had already been bullied into an MUA. My heart goes out to you, and I hear echoes of my own struggles within yours, especially in the emotional realm.
@Fire wolf has addressed this loneliness quite well in a previous post to you. I have felt this, more on than off, for this entire journey. Sometimes it brings tears to my eyes when my DH walks in from work, and I'm sitting, stuck in the recliner. I see a shadow of disappointment pass over his face before he cheerily asks how my day went and can he get me anything? It's mighty hard to be humble and accept the role of recuperee. Mighty hard. Did I say Mighty. Hard? There is such loneliness in dealing with something mostly in silence while life moves on about you. It's especially hard when a loved one, who wants only the best for you, is trying mightily to experience things with you, and he can only experience a fraction of what you are going through. I have no answers to the loneliness--but know that I understand.
You also said that you wish your loved ones would get on BoneSmart, but that they don't have the time or the inclination. Recently, I have started bookmarking peoples' posts where they talk about similar issues, hurdles, or milestones to those I'm going through. My husband will read short ones, and it helps him understand better. He is not so good with reading articles, but the personal examples seem to resonate with him. (At an opportune moment, I hand him my iPad with the bookmarked passage onscreen.)
This has been my life since finding BoneSmart. Don't do it, Ruby; Just. Don't. Do. It. It's a vicious cycle with teeth that bite you. It's a hamster wheel of remorse.
It's a circle of cr--p. It's a...well, you fill in the blank. Resist, resist, resist! Throw out the No Pain, No Gain thing once and for all! I feel I can say this because I have gone back to the manic exercising and not listening to my knee so many times, and I have been in the same boat with you. It serves us badly and regresses our progress, which, for me, is more detrimental to the psyche and the emotions than it is to my knee. I suggest you throw out the stories about people who didn't do what they were supposed to do and had bad outcomes. You KNOW you tried to do everything "they" told you to do, and did it work? No! I exercised my butt off the first 5 weeks and had an MUA anyway.
After the MUA, I increased the exercise with multiple bouts of tears every day. The doctor and other medical personnel were always suspicious and blaming. So I would go home from an appointment, grit my teeth, and do more. Did it result in more ROM or greater freedom of movement? While the MUA gave me more ROM, the truth is that the manaiacal exercising just increased swelling. Did I learn from that? Well, I'm still learning...still feeling guilty from time to time and push too hard; still find it difficult to trust in the gentler way. But I'm here to testify that the aggressive way did not work for me.Rest, Ruby. You deserve it. Trying harder has gotten you a big fat throat of unshed tears and unheard screams. Let it go. You can do this.
Walk on!
bertschb
member
Ruby- I spent 98% of my days in a recliner with my ice machine FOR FIVE MONTHS! Since my amazing wife took care of 100% of the daily tasks around me I literally did nothing. It's definitely not fun but it is required in order to heal. Prior to my surgery I was doing two hour mountain bike rides every day and not being able to exercise while recuperating was really, really hard. I know first hand how hard it is to be patient.
If I have to have my other knee replaced some day this is what I plan to do:
- No exercise
- No PT
- No MUA
- Rest, ice and elevate until it heals
The difference will be that I now know it takes a year to recover from this surgery so I'll be prepared for the agonizingly slow recovery next time.
OJ2
senior
Recovery is indeed partially in the mind. It is easy to get depressed, lonely, sad, and unable to see light at the end. Celebrate every nap, every little improvement, and every day, because time is what will help.
Your OS sounds like a 'my way' unflexable jerk that only knows one way. I feel sorry for his poor wife!
Don't look at your resting and following BS's guidelines as doing nothing. It is your job you are doing to heal your knee! Your body needs that rest to heal better. As you have seen, too much activity doesn't help a new knee. But, the BS way does! It has been proven over and over again through the years with thousands of tkr patients. How many PTs and OSs have actually had the tkr?! I wish all of them!
Don't look at your resting and following BS's guidelines as doing nothing. It is your job you are doing to heal your knee! Your body needs that rest to heal better. As you have seen, too much activity doesn't help a new knee. But, the BS way does! It has been proven over and over again through the years with thousands of tkr patients. How many PTs and OSs have actually had the tkr?! I wish all of them!
OP
OP
Ruby9297
senior
Hello Friends, I've been following advice and not doing ridiculous exercise regimens commanded of me by PT. My next surgeon's appointment is on Wednesday, where I will be expected to make a decision regarding the MUA, for which a tentative opening has been held for next Monday, the 25th, should I decide to go through with it. Meanwhile, I've made zero progress with my ROM. I met yet another new PT on Friday, who measured my ROM at 60 degrees.
Bear in mind that I will be 10 weeks post-op on Tuesday, so this is drastically far behind the curve, and I can tell that they still think I'm not making an effort to heal. I do what I'm asked at PT, as long as it doesn't cause pain, and this is interpreted as me not making an effort to improve my ROM. I also do heel slides and stretches at home. I find stretching is best done in the shower when I have hot water falling on my knee. I also press the back of my knee flat against the recliner, and use my mini cycler.
I can see small improvements in ways that aren't measured by the "professionals". For example, I can get into and out of the car without using my leg-lifter strap. I was able to ride in the front seat of the car for the first time, too. I can drive a little further than before. I can do ADLs, including shampooing the carpet in one of the bedrooms, and using the weed whacker to edge the lawn, and I trimmed a lot of bushes in the front today. (OK, so those aren't ADLs, but it shows progress).
I wouldn't have done it at all, but I felt the need to help my husband, who passed a kidney stone on Friday afternoon, and looks a little worse for wear. We live in a neighborhood with a very picky Home Owners Association who sends nasty letters, with threats to fine us if our lawns, plants, bushes, and weeding isn't perfectly done at all times.
However, I experienced more pain last night when I should have been sleeping. I've felt more pain today as well. I still can't sleep in my bed. I'm grateful for the recliner, but I miss my bed!
The swelling on my knee is still up and down. I rest and ice, it subsides, although it has never gone completely down. I get up and do a little bit of activity, it swells up again. The stiffness and tightness feels worse than ever, like I have tight bands making my knee stick in one place.
I do scar massage multiple times daily; the scar is tender and thick and lumpy in places. Also, bending too far gives me the feeling that the scar will tear open. I'm at my wit's end! I met my staff for drinks on Friday afternoon when they got off work and I got through with my PT appointment. Seeing them made me realize how much I miss them and miss my "normal" life, in spite of how stressful my job is much of the time.
I just want my life back! I am just so fed-up! I stalled my doctor for a week. He was rude. I asked for a referral to another OS, but I'm still waiting for that to get approved by my insurance, so there's not a lot of time. My PCP told me that no OS will take me on until 90 days have passed since my TKR.
I know I sound like a whiner every time I write an update, but I'm honestly at the end of my rope! I try hard, and get no ROM. I back off of the exercises, and I still get no ROM.
Sent from my iPad using BoneSmart Forum
Bear in mind that I will be 10 weeks post-op on Tuesday, so this is drastically far behind the curve, and I can tell that they still think I'm not making an effort to heal. I do what I'm asked at PT, as long as it doesn't cause pain, and this is interpreted as me not making an effort to improve my ROM. I also do heel slides and stretches at home. I find stretching is best done in the shower when I have hot water falling on my knee. I also press the back of my knee flat against the recliner, and use my mini cycler.
I can see small improvements in ways that aren't measured by the "professionals". For example, I can get into and out of the car without using my leg-lifter strap. I was able to ride in the front seat of the car for the first time, too. I can drive a little further than before. I can do ADLs, including shampooing the carpet in one of the bedrooms, and using the weed whacker to edge the lawn, and I trimmed a lot of bushes in the front today. (OK, so those aren't ADLs, but it shows progress).
I wouldn't have done it at all, but I felt the need to help my husband, who passed a kidney stone on Friday afternoon, and looks a little worse for wear. We live in a neighborhood with a very picky Home Owners Association who sends nasty letters, with threats to fine us if our lawns, plants, bushes, and weeding isn't perfectly done at all times.
However, I experienced more pain last night when I should have been sleeping. I've felt more pain today as well. I still can't sleep in my bed. I'm grateful for the recliner, but I miss my bed!
The swelling on my knee is still up and down. I rest and ice, it subsides, although it has never gone completely down. I get up and do a little bit of activity, it swells up again. The stiffness and tightness feels worse than ever, like I have tight bands making my knee stick in one place.
I do scar massage multiple times daily; the scar is tender and thick and lumpy in places. Also, bending too far gives me the feeling that the scar will tear open. I'm at my wit's end! I met my staff for drinks on Friday afternoon when they got off work and I got through with my PT appointment. Seeing them made me realize how much I miss them and miss my "normal" life, in spite of how stressful my job is much of the time.
I just want my life back! I am just so fed-up! I stalled my doctor for a week. He was rude. I asked for a referral to another OS, but I'm still waiting for that to get approved by my insurance, so there's not a lot of time. My PCP told me that no OS will take me on until 90 days have passed since my TKR.
I know I sound like a whiner every time I write an update, but I'm honestly at the end of my rope! I try hard, and get no ROM. I back off of the exercises, and I still get no ROM.
Sent from my iPad using BoneSmart Forum
Last edited:
Dear, sweet Ruby. You are trying too hard! All of this activity is what is holding you back from getting better ROM.
We've told you that time and time again. I'm going to ask @Josephine to advise you - perhaps when you see your exercise and activities listed, you will realise how much you have been overdoing things.
Until you stop all this over-activity, your poor knee simply won't increase its ROM. It needs a complete rest, with no PT, no exercises, no gardening, no housework, for at least 3 weeks, so your poor wounded, inflamed tissues can settle down.
Trying to work hard to get ROM just doesn't work. Doing that works against you. You cannot make your knee bend more by working hard at it.
TKR: work “smarter” and not “harder”
Knee recovery - Lose the Work Ethic!!
Life in the slow lane
If you decide to go ahead with having an MUA next week, please, please don't get trapped into this cycle of over-working your knee again. If you do, you could end up with chronic inflammation and swelling.
We've told you that time and time again. I'm going to ask @Josephine to advise you - perhaps when you see your exercise and activities listed, you will realise how much you have been overdoing things.
Until you stop all this over-activity, your poor knee simply won't increase its ROM. It needs a complete rest, with no PT, no exercises, no gardening, no housework, for at least 3 weeks, so your poor wounded, inflamed tissues can settle down.
Trying to work hard to get ROM just doesn't work. Doing that works against you. You cannot make your knee bend more by working hard at it.
TKR: work “smarter” and not “harder”
Knee recovery - Lose the Work Ethic!!
Life in the slow lane
If you decide to go ahead with having an MUA next week, please, please don't get trapped into this cycle of over-working your knee again. If you do, you could end up with chronic inflammation and swelling.
As for those nasty people, you must put your health first. Don't allow yourself to be intimidated by them. Instead, ask for their help, since you have had major surgery - or tell them to put their threats where the sun don't shine!
PS: Leave your scar alone, too. All that massaging is totally unnecessary and it's probably irritating the incision. Left to itself, your scar will heal beautifully and all those lumps and bumps will even out. At the moment, they're a normal part of the healing process.
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