PKR Long Story of my Battle with a Bad Knee

[Jaycey]

Evenings are still rough no matter what I do during the day.

This is sending you a loud and clear message.

If this "routine" is working for you that's fine. But for many of our members a more gentle approach is needed. No one should feel pressured to "work hard" post op. There is no time line for gaining ROM.

 

[beesknee]

Evenings are still rough no matter what I do during the day.

This is sending you a loud and clear message.

If this "routine" is working for you that's fine. But for many of our members a more gentle approach is needed. No one should feel pressured to "work hard" post op. There is no time line for gaining ROM.

I am only following doctor's orders. He is the top Michigan knee doctor and I feel it is best to follow his rehab program in conjunction with my PT.

Yes, evenings are rough even if I take a day off or have a real light day. Based on other members posts, evenings are when things catch up for most of us no matter what we do. Just being on one's feet during the day can increase swelling (gravity at work) which can give us that extra tight feel at the end of a long day.

Fortunately after a good 8 to 10 hour solid sleep at night I wake up feeling good. Fortunately, I found the secret to sleeping straight through that I can't post here. For me, a long healing sleep each is the best healing medicine.

I am much better in the morning, not saying I wake up doing a jig, because it still takes me 30 minutes and a cup of coffee before I can get my d*** right sock on.

I don't have and scientific stats, but I would guess that most people can eventually heal up without much PT or any PT. It is those few that have a stubborn knee that I feel I have that needs to push though some PT discomfort to decrease the risk of an MUA or speed getting back to normal.

I am no Doctor with expertise in PKRs or TKRs so I feel I should also add a disclaimer to my posts moving forward to avoid any confusion.


POSTER LEGAL DISCLAIMER - My comments on this web site are provided for informational purposes only and are not a substitute for advice from your personal physician or surgeon.

 

[beesknee]

I looked at the insurance EOB for my PT visits - they charge my insurance $450 per visit. No wonder they push me to come in 3 or 4 days a week! Nothing they do I can't do at home for free.

POSTER LEGAL DISCLAIMER - My comments on this web site are provided for informational purposes only and are not a substitute for advice from your personal physician or surgeon.

 

[beesknee]

Week 5 update:

Knee still stiff but ROM is 110 pushed and 90 not pushed so I feel I am making slow but steady progress.

While at PT Friday, a 70ish year old lady came in for PT. She is 2.5 weeks since total knee replacement. She was walking without her walker and zipping through all the exercises that I have to grin and bare. She said she had bone on bone for several years and the pain from replacement surgery is less than what she was experiencing on a daily basis.

I was kidding her that she was showboating and making me look bad.

I feel, she is the type of person that never ends up on bonesmart. Everything going perfectly, no reason to search the web about why she has pain, can't sleep, can't bend knee etc.. It's hard to believe but there are people that breeze through this surgery. Maybe they are the silent majority?

This upcoming week I am canceling PT appointments and will see how I feel after a week of self guided less aggressive PT.

One thing that is driving me nuts: Even though I can sit in a chair or car with my knee bent in a normal position, after about 5 minutes my knee starts hurting real bad and wants to be put in a straight position.

I drove the 15 minutes to PT Friday - first time driving - and those last few minutes were torture worse than any PT stretch I have to do. Once I got out of car, and walked a few steps pain went away.

I am now sitting at my desk and have to have my leg propped up or I could not last the time it takes to write this updated.

Is this normal and how long before I can sit for a reasonable amount of time without pain? I figured when I got enough ROM back sitting with leg bent would not be so painful.

I am so sick of my life revolving so much around my knee.

Per a suggestion from IronGirl, I started using a compression sleeve while walking around. It really seems to help and make my knee feel much more stable while walking more than a very short distance.

BTW - When I am logged into this site it is very slow. To read posts I need to log out to speed it up.

 

[Ginger1210]

Hi beeksnee I feel your frustration i am nearly 4 months post op and my knee still rules my life. I am improving little by little but it is tough going. I went swimming last Friday night after work this was my first time back in the pool since October 2020. I did OK 40 lengths front crawl only. Walking is still a issue for me i get pain and stiffness after around 10 minutes on my feet. I am not scheduled to see my surgeon until December. My wife keeps telling me i am improving but some days i think i am going backwards not forwards.

 

[beesknee]

7 week update.

It has been a few weeks since last update. Site is extremely slow when I am logged in so posting is time consuming.

I spoke to the OS office about PT two weeks ago saying I was going to try a week off PT. They said try only 2 days a week and don't push past the pain. So for the last 2 weeks I have done that. At PT I do about 8 bend exercises and 3 sets of 10 and 4 strength exercises and push myself but not as much as before. At home I do only 4 bending exercises - 2 sets of 10 and 2 quad strength exercises, I rotate bend and quad strength exercises each day. I also do a light stretch here and there if I think of it.

I am walking a little farther each day with sticks and do up to 4 minutes on my elliptical trainer. I could walk farther and do more elliptical minutes but increasing slowly making sure I don't overdo it with the ADL exercises.

My swelling is about 50% down. Pain is very minimal. I only have stiffness at this point. I measured my bend yesterday at 115 ROM so made some minimal progress over past two weeks, I think.

I have driven a bit but it is difficult because my leg has to be at 90 ROM in my Jeep to hit gas and brake so after about 10 minutes it starts aching badly - being 6'4" limits how much room I can give myself moving seat back. Sitting with leg down becomes uncomfortable after a short time. So when I sit, leg is normally propped up straight.

Two month doctor appointment Tuesday. 1.5 hours away. I imagine after the drive I will be very stiff and lucky to hit 90 on their evaluation bend. I made sure the actual OS will be there so I can tell him I expected from his comments to be where I am at now at week two, not month two. Previously, I did credit him for a miracle for fixing this knee 10 years ago with micro fracture unleashing the athlete in me. So he has to take the good with the bad.

I now think dark thoughts that I should have had him try microfracture again before a partial knee replacement.

He will be forgiven if I am out on the tennis courts next spring.

So far, we have given up on taking our boat out. I canceled my grouse hunting trip early October because I don't think I will be able to walk miles through thick woods, and am about to sell my Rolling Stones tickets. Summer ruined with Covid last year and "The Knee" this year.

My goals are different than many here, pre-surgery I was pain free. My knee only bothered me after I tried to play sports. So walking pain free is only getting me back to where I was, my goal is to become active again, playing Tennis, Pickleball, Occasional sand volleyball, light basketball... but no distance straight line running as I don't need to push knee to much.

At 60, I am at that age when I need to workout even harder to stay in shape to keep this body ticking and maybe squeak out a few extra years. My older brother is 87 and the picture of health and can still kick my a** so I hope I have some of the same genes.

Anyway, this is why I push myself hard during this rehab, sure if I rest and baby my knee in a few months I'll be walking up and down our street, but I expect so much more and need at least a 130 ROM without stiffness and good strength to get there. Sitting around not doing much is not going to get me there unless I happen to be one of those unicorn fast healers which it seems I am not.

Today I hope to drive to the local dispensary and get some CBD oil and gummies to see if it works as well or better than as Naproxen, Ibuprofen, or Acetaminophen which hurt my stomach and liver.

Baby steps.

 

[Gingerbread]

I'm like you when it comes to pre-surgery baseline.
I didn't have much pain walking, but I am a regular low impact exerciser & I was finding that even the most basic pilates & yoga poses were causing excruciating pain and causing my right knee to lock.
I cannot wait to get back to exercising and playing nerf guns with my grandson. I'm interested to see how you fair with the CBD oil & gummies (I am looking for an alternative as well). Please keep us posted.

 

[beesknee]

I'm like you when it comes to pre-surgery baseline.
I didn't have much pain walking, but I am a regular low impact exerciser & I was finding that even the most basic pilates & yoga poses were causing excruciating pain and causing my right knee to lock.
I cannot wait to get back to exercising and playing nerf guns with my grandson. I'm interested to see how you fair with the CBD oil & gummies (I am looking for an alternative as well). Please keep us posted.

I did buy the CBD and will update after a few days of use.

I think those that have extreme pain in their knees pre surgery are happiest with their outcomes at least early on because some have pain so bad pre surgery that post surgery pain is a piece of cake.

Pre surgery my knee would feel fine so I would try to strengthen it with a few moderate leg presses and leg curls and then I would have a sharp pain in my knee for three or four days. So both legs started getting weaker and skinnier.

I had to make the choice, do I just want to walk around comfortably into my old age or risk the operation and have a chance to be more active and healthy for the long run.

It is early but the jury is still out. The good news is week to week I feel better the bad news is I am sick of a stiff knee and so is the rest of my family! The lawn ain't cutting itself!

 

[Jamie]

Be sure and let your GP know that you are taking the CBD products. They can interact with some medications as do any herbal products.

 

[beesknee]

Be sure and let your GP know that you are taking the CBD products. They can interact with some medications as do any herbal products.

Understood, however, I do not want any hint of MMJ use in my medical records since it still is a federal crime. Dr. Google tells me about any interactions to watch out for.

 

[beesknee]

Yesterday was the first day I can remember I did no PT (home or away).

We had a small dinner party and then played cards and I did about 2 hours of house cleaning getting ready.

At the end of the day my knee was barking worse than my most hardcore PT day. I think sitting at the kitchen table for 2 or 3 hours is what aggravated the knee the most. I tried to keep it propped up straight as much as possible without getting in the way and looking ridiculous.

Today, back to normal stiffness.

 

[beesknee]

Had my 2 months check up with the OS office yesterday (tomorrow is exactly 2 months). Only saw the PA again. Was supposed to see the doctor but he was an hour behind, and I decided not to wait. Long drive and would hit rush hour on way back if I waited.

Anyway, the dreaded MUA came up. She measured my ROM at 111. At 2-week appt it was 70 ROM.

It seems I gain a few degrees each week but seem to have been in the 105 to 115 range for maybe 3 weeks. I do my PT, get better ROM than when done the knee stiffens back up to 80% of where it was pre-stretching. However, I must do some stretching each day or I have a peg leg while walking around. Some stretching at least gets me to the point where I can move around the house better.

I had my Monday PT and the male PT was in charge, I did all the exercises myself, then he said let me stretch you out. I said OK but only gentle bends. He really cranked on it, got 109 ROM and was like let's get a few more and pushed to 112. Ouch. So, knee was swollen pretty good for appointment.

The PA recommended I stop in person PT (to aggressive) and just do some stretches myself for the next 4 weeks and if my ROM has not increased, they will schedule an MUA up. Fun, but I can’t live like this forever, so I’ll try anything. The hope is some swelling will go down and I’ll be at least at 120. She said if there is too much scar tissue build up, no stretching and PT is going to increase ROM past a certain point

So mad at myself for having this done. I feel that I’ll be dealing with a stiff wonky knee for the rest of my life, especially if I need an MUA. I don’t think hardly anyone has a great outcome if an MUA is needed.

I ruined my summer. My daughter moving into college Saturday, and I’ll be pretty much useless and don’t look forward to something that should be an exciting time. Just called the marina and told them to winterize the boat. We went out zero times. Hunting trip cancelled that was early October. Late October travel the wife and I were planning on hold.

Rolling Stones coming to town in November. I was to go with my mid-20s son as I think this is the end of the line for them. But who knows if I’ll be mosh pit ready by November? I don’t see it. I am not even sitting in chair with foot on ground ready at this point.

My advice to anyone is do not get a knee replacement unless you can barely walk and are bone on bone, think long and hard before getting a knee replacement if you are making due with your real knees.

What a mess.

 

[Jockette]

I’m sorry that you are so discouraged at 2 months post op. What we read about recoveries from partials does not always match up with our real life individual recoveries. I was shocked by my recovery, and I do agree with you, I feel I jumped in too fast to have my partial, because my knee hurt. I was not bone on bone, and pain did not wake me up at night.

However, I will say, I am much better now, than I was at 2 months post op. My knee, including ROM, continued to improve well into my second year, as my whole leg continued to relax and heal. At 2 months post op, where you are now is not where you will end up. You have lots of time to improve, it just won’t happen as quickly as you would like, or was expecting.

I’m really surprised they are talking MUA if your knee can bend as far as 112, even if it is not consistent, or done by yourself. There really is a lot of soft tissue that is disrupted during this surgery, even with a partial, and that all takes time to heal, which can limit your ROM until it does heal. And personally, I think reaching 112 at 2 months is great!

I was just as discouraged as you, at 2 months post op, because, like you, I thought PKR was a piece of cake surgery and recovery would be close to complete by now. It took me a long time to adjust my expectations and accept my reality. I hope in time you’ll feel this surgery was a success.

 

[beesknee]

I’m sorry that you are so discouraged at 2 months post op. What we read about recoveries from partials does not always match up with our real life individual recoveries. I was shocked by my recovery, and I do agree with you, I feel I jumped in too fast to have my partial, because my knee hurt. I was not bone on bone, and pain did not wake me up at night.

However, I will say, I am much better now, than I was at 2 months post op. My knee, including ROM, continued to improve well into my second year, as my whole leg continued to relax and heal. At 2 months post op, where you are now is not where you will end up. You have lots of time to improve, it just won’t happen as quickly as you would like, or was expecting.

I’m really surprised they are talking MUA if your knee can bend as far as 112, even if it is not consistent, or done by yourself. There really is a lot of soft tissue that is disrupted during this surgery, even with a partial, and that all takes time to heal, which can limit your ROM until it does heal. And personally, I think reaching 112 at 2 months is great!

I was just as discouraged as you, at 2 months post op, because, like you, I thought PKR was a piece of cake surgery and recovery would be close to complete by now. It took me a long time to adjust my expectations and accept my reality. I hope in time you’ll feel this surgery was a success.

I went in for a possible knee scope and walked out agreeing to a PTK. Perfect candidate, quick recovery.

I think in two weeks of doing my home PT I'll know which way this is going. If I am still stuck between 110 and 115 I think an MUA will be in the cards.

I was reading about MUAs just know. Those that had prior Arthroscopy procedure on the knee are more prone to needing an MUA.

Apparently MUAs are fairly risk free and have a good long term success rate. The biggest danger is a broken bone. I have strong bones so I don't think that will be a risk.

It was a PA that brought up MUA, not the doctor, who I wish I was able to see. I am 1.5 hours away and had my 18 year old daughter drive me. It was a white knuckle ride there and I did not want to wait an hour and be in heavy traffic on the way home. We did get in some traffic at one point and she could not get over to make a left turn, we went a mile past our turn while she had a major panic attack. Then we get on the highway and she tailgates because she takes great offense if someone hops in the lane in front of her. So glad she won't be able to have a car at college.

Next time my wife drives!

 

[beesknee]

Yesterday I spent 5 hours getting my daughter moved into her dorm. Thankfully the other dad was there to help with some lifting and bending putting stuff together. I help quite a bit but was frustrating that I couldn't get on my knees to do some putting together IKEA tasks.

Anyway lots of standing, bending over, lifting and walking to and from car and to the cafeteria. Plus an hour drive each way. This was the biggest real life test of my knee since surgery.

I was very disappointed that I couldn't spend some time after were were done walking around campus exploring. I would have walked over to my old dorm and check out the room I stayed in during 1979-1980 for kicks. I am so mad at myself that I had this surgery. It has take so much joy out of my life. Maybe one day it will be better and I will be glad I did it, but at the rate it is healing, some days I feel it will never be 100%.

My knee was barking toward the end of the move in. Iced my knee on the drive home. It felt a little better but swollen and sore. I still did an abbreviated version of my flexion exercises once home. Today have some extra aches and pains in knee, nothing bad, but some soreness I haven't had in a while when walking and putting weight on it.

I decided today, for the first time that I can remember I will do zero rehab exercises. I'll probably walk around the yard a bit for mental health, but that's it.

It will be interesting how I will feel tomorrow. It seems I am getting a tiny bit of extra flexion each day while doing my self guided home pt. I have a few benchmark things I measure against. Like a ruler beside my leg as I do heel drags. I added a few inches more heel drag over the past 3 or 4 days.

Unfortunately, all that bending has not translated into any zipping around painlessly.

Question. I sleep fine, but have to sleep on my back. I keep my leg flat in and unbent position. Fortunately, we recently added a 3 inch memory foam topper so after 8 or 9 hours sleeping in same position I wake up without bed sores or aching back.

Presurgery, I normally would fall asleep on my side (faster for me to fall asleep and less snoring). Now when I try to lay on my side, pillow between legs for support my knee starts to hurt after 15 -30 minutes. I can't figure out why. I situate my leg so it is mostly straight and it is comfortable for a short time then wham, just as I am falling asleep my knee hurts and I need to shift back to my back.

Anyone else have this issue? If I this happened when sleeping on my back I would not be able to sleep like a teenager and would have the sleep issues many here have.

 

[FCBayern]

I am so mad at myself that I had this surgery. It has take so much joy out of my life. Maybe one day it will be better and I will be glad I did it, but at the rate it is healing, some days I feel it will never be 100%.

You are being your own worst enemy here. You are not quite 2 months into a 12-18 month recovery, and you are pushing your new knee way beyond what it is ready for yet. Many are told that PKR will be a faster recovery that TKR, but we have tons of PKR members who can tell you that's not true. You need to give that knee a break and let it heal.

 

[Gingerbread]

I sympathize. Having life continue to revolve around our knees (which is precisely why we had this surgery- to avoid thinking about our knees 24/7!) is depressing! I'm sorry you didn't get to visit your old dorm. I have only visited my new granddaughter once since she was born on the 10th. If I was driving I would have seen her many times already...
As far as the side sleeping goes, I have the same issue. I try to put the pillow btw my legs and sleep on my unaffected (left) side because I am so sick of sleeping on my back, but after 10 minutes max I have to yank the pillow out in disgust because it is too painful.
I'm sorry you're going through this but rest assured you aren't alone.

 

[beesknee]

As far as the side sleeping goes, I have the same issue. I try to put the pillow btw my legs and sleep on my unaffected (left) side because I am so sick of sleeping on my back, but after 10 minutes max I have to yank the pillow out in disgust because it is too painful.

Yeah, I wish I could solve the side sleep issue. Makes no sense to me that leg does not hurt except for an occasional ache when sleeping on my back. But on either side, I adjust leg with pillows so it is not bent or have some excess weight on it but then get hit with sharp pain after 15 minutes. Normally, if I happened to wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, I would lay on my side and fall back to sleep very quickly. Now I have to go right back to my back position which my body is tired of so falling back to sleep takes a bit longer than normal for me.

So Sunday, I did zero rehab. About the most challenging thing I did was walk up our long driveway and bring down the empty garbage cans. This is something that would have been nearly impossible 2 weeks ago so I must be making some progress.

Anyway, boy did my knee feel good yesterday. It was very stiff as usual but fewer aches and pains. Yesterday I did my at home PT exercises. They were much easier to do without feeling any pain but as far as I could tell, my ROM did decrease a little. I also, washed my car in the driveway for the first time since June.

It sure is tempting to not do any PT for a week to see what happens but I would hate to go backwards.

I am, however, glad I quit formal in person PT. I can do everything I did with them without the encouragement to push myself too far - plus no $25 per visit co-pay which adds up.

Today we are going out to a surprise birthday dinner so I will do a light version of my PT exercises so I have less pain while sitting at the dinner table. 1 or 2 sets of each instead of 3 sets. It is nice to be able to adjust my PT to fit in with my ADLs.

While I still am mad I had this done, I can perhaps envision a day 4 - 6 months from now when my knee is almost as good as it was pre-surgery. That is all I am hoping for now. Sad.

I said this before. Unless you are really suffering with daily knee pain, DO NOT have knee replacement done. There is just too great of a chance of a less than optimal outcome.

I could walk for miles pre surgery without pain. I just could not do things like run up stairs, play sports that involved even a little running or jumping to work up a good sweat. So I got greedy and wanted to be more active again and had a partial knee replacement.

 

[Taoquest]

@Gingerbread, I had Bilateral TKR almost 12 weeks ago, and I am dealing with the same issues regarding sleep. I would love to sleep on my side again, and I have tried many times using a pillow between my legs. That always lasts a short time and feels more uncomfortable by the minute. I then end up being on my back with my Lounge Doctor again. Every. Single. Time.

 

[beesknee]

Will be at 10 weeks this Thursday. Very slow going.

Mid June we had our boat de-winterized and some work done. Today, we finally picked it up after they winterized it. We never used it this year.

Had a scare while parking the boat in our yard. I was at the hitch and stepped over it with good leg and bad leg toe caught the hitch and I went flying. Instead of trying to catch myself in any way with the knee leg I did a tuck and roll keeping leg straight as possible. After laying on the ground hoping all is well I got up and only felt the everyday normal pain. Maybe a good sign I forgot about bad knee when I decided to step over the 2 foot high trailer hitch?

2 days ago I finally had what I would call a very good day. Swelling seemed down and I did not look to use the cane all day. So yesterday I was excited about getting up and feeling like I am getting better again but knee quickly puffed up as normal and used the cane on and off all day.

A few days prior I had a few of the worst days in weeks. I did my normal PT exercises so I couldn't figure out why I went backwards. Then I realized that I upped my time on our elliptical from 3 to 5 minutes and added a .25 mile brisk walk on our treadmill 2 days in a row prior. I think this aggravated knee over and above what my PT exercises do to me so I stopped those for now.

Today after fall I still I did my PT. I think I am at or very close to 120 ROM if I am getting a proper measure. This is good because I was stuck between 110 and 115 for almost a month. It took a lot of work to get there and after PT I normally feel worse than before but want to increase the bend before next OS appointment at the end of the month.

At the OS suggestion I quit formal PT (said maybe too aggressive). I do my own exercises and regulate reps and sets of each based on how I feel. No need to do x reps of x sets no matter what so I think that helps. I even took a day off once.

Have football tickets 3 weeks from now. I am thinking I will be missing the game. Another lost opportunity to have fun.

BTW - The guy at the marina checking us out had bilateral knee replacements a year ago and was moving around very well with no pain. His advise - "Do your PT".