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TKR Injury at 7 weeks out from TKR

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I had been experiencing redness, chills, tingling and tenderness in knee and leg. I was also running a low grade fever for a few days of around 99.6 - 99.8.
Nothing abnormal in that whatsoever.However, the quads detachment is a worry.

So I'm going to ask you some questions and it would be very helpful if you would answer each one individually - numbered as I have done - in as much detail as you can then I'll come back as see where you are ....

1. what are your pain levels right now? (remember the 1-10 scale: 1 = no pain and 10 = the worst you can imagine. And don't compare this with the bone-on-bone pain you had before surgery!
[Bonesmart.org] Injury at 7 weeks out from TKR
)
Also don't forget to include other forms of pain such as soreness, burning, stabbing, throbbing, aching, swelling and stiffness

2. what pain medications have you been prescribed, how much are you taking (in mg please) and how often?

3. how often are you icing your knee and for how long?

4. are you elevating your leg, how often and for how long?

5. What is your ROM - that's flexion (bend) and extension (straightness)

6. what is your activity level? What do you do in the way of housework, cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc., and

7. what kind of PT exercises and exercises at home are you doing? How much and how often? (and detailed details would be appreciated, please! **Reps, sets and sessions** and all that)

** If you're not familiar with this, it goes like so:
1 lift of your leg = 1 rep (repetition)
5 reps and then a brief rest = 1 set
5 sets and finishing = 1 session.
 
Hi, Thank you so much for the detail! Here are my replies:

1-My pain level in my knee really never exceeds a three. The achiness i get is more of a nuisance feeling than a pain and I can deal with it pretty well during the day. I do get occasional "stabs" of pain that I'd rate as a 7-8 that really make me wince. They are periodic and very fleeting. The worst pain, oddly, is in my hip. It can get to be a 7 at times when at rest. Also, the soft tissue pain around my knee can be about a 6-7 when massaged by PT. Swelling is bad by noon on work days or days I walk a lot. My whole calf gets swollen as well and is visibly plump and taut to the touch. It is bothersome and uncomfortable. Swelling is way down in mornings. Stiffness is bad upon sitting for longer periods of time and is actually relieved with light walking.

2-My prescriptions are (were) oxycontin 20 mg, 2 X Day for first four weeks. I stopped taking that after three weeks and have one weeks worth left. I was prescribed Percoset 10 mg, every four hours as needed for breakthrough pain. I have a lot of those left still and only take 1/2 tablet (5 mg) at night when achiness and hip bother me most. I take 500 mg of Tylenol in morning around 7am and again around 3am.

3- I ice daily in the evening during the week for about 1/2 hour and an extra ten minutes on PT days while I am at the PT facility. On weekends I ice 2 times a day for about 1/2 hour each time.

4-I elevate above my heart about same frequency as Icing. I elevate at work throughout the day but only on my garbage can while sitting at my desk chair. At home I putter around the house and elevate in recliner (not above heart).

5-ROM was 0-137. That has decreased after the tear but has not been measured post tear. It is still pretty good though.

6-Activity at work consists of walking perhaps a total 1/2 mile per day interspersed with desk work. At home is maily puttering around interspersed with average errands, light chores and rest. I do some cooking, some laundry etc. I stop when its bothersome. I do about three sets of one story stairs per day.

7-Honestly I do very little PT at home since the tear and partial detachment. Mainly leg ligts with quad tightened 3 sets of ten reps. Prior to injury I did heavier PT at the facility and then lighter at home. At facility I did three sets of 10 leg lifts with 2.5 lb weights, same with bridges, butterflies, flexion bends and 8" stir steps. I also did 3 sets of ten leg presses on what I call a sled with 2.5 bands of tension. Finally I did what I think are called TKE's with 17.5 lbs of weight 25 times held for five seconds each. Other activities like calf stretches, quad sets and etc are interspersed.

I do think this was overdoing it and led to the partial tear and partial patella detachment.

Thank you so much for your willingness to help! :loll:
 
1-My pain level in my knee really never exceeds a three. The achiness I get is more of a nuisance feeling than a pain and I can deal with it pretty well during the day.
hmmm, okay ...
The worst pain, oddly, is in my hip. It can get to be a 7 at times when at rest.
Can you tell me the exact site of this pain using this chart?
Please note the instructions in the smaller image

[Bonesmart.org] Injury at 7 weeks out from TKR


[Bonesmart.org] Injury at 7 weeks out from TKR


Also, the soft tissue pain around my knee can be about a 6-7 when massaged by PT
Then don't let her do it! e have a mantra which includes the advice
- if it hurts, don't do it and don't allow anyone - especially a physiotherapist - to do it to you
- if your leg swells more or gets stiffer in the 24 hours after doing it, don't do it again
Swelling is bad by noon on work days or days I walk a lot.
Then don't walk a lot and reread the previous answer!
2-My prescriptions are (were) oxycontin 20 mg, 2 X Day for first four weeks. I stopped taking that after three weeks and have one weeks worth left. I was prescribed Percoset 10 mg, every four hours as needed for breakthrough pain. I have a lot of those left still and only take ½ tablet (5 mg) at night when achiness and hip bother me most. I take 500 mg of Tylenol in morning around 7am and again around 3am.
Considering you are only 8 weeks out, you have to remember that this is very early in your healing process. Therefore you still need to be taking your meds as prescribed and not cutting back. 5mg is an inadequate amount for good pain management as is 500mg Tylenol. The basic effective dose of Tylenol is 1,000mg up to 4 times a day. In effect you are taking medications at a level that is inadequate and yet still exposing you to the side effects. Not a good idea in any way, shape or form.
3- I ice daily in the evening during the week for about ½hour and an extra ten minutes on PT days while I am at the PT facility. On weekends I ice 2 times a day for about ½hour each time. 4-I elevate above my heart about same frequency as Icing. I elevate at work throughout the day but only on my garbage can while sitting at my desk chair. At home I putter around the house and elevate in recliner (not above heart).
You accomplish little or nothing in 20 minutes. Ice for at least 40-60mins and more than 4 times a day, same with elevating. And foot on a stool (or garbage can!) is also inadequate. Your foot has to be higher than your hip (some say "toes above nose") for full effect to reduce swelling.
6-Activity at work consists of walking perhaps a total ½ mile per day interspersed with desk work. At home is mainly puttering around interspersed with average errands, light chores and rest. I do some cooking, some laundry etc. I stop when its bothersome. I do about three sets of one story stairs per day.
That's quite a lot for 8 weeks out.
How long have you been back at work? How many hours do you do weekly?
7-Honestly I do very little PT at home since the tear and partial detachment. Mainly leg lifts with quad tightened 3 sets of ten reps.
I can imagine. I would have been happier if you were doing NO exercises! Leg lifts are very demanding on the patellar tendon/quads.

Your exercises - my comments in bold
leg lifts with 2.5 lb weights 3 sets of 10 - too much and never with weights!
bridges with 2.5 lb weights 3 sets of 10 - too much and never with weights!
butterflies with 2.5 lb weights 3 sets of 10 - too much and never with weights!
flexion bends with 2.5 lb weights 3 sets of 10 - too much and never with weights!
8" stair steps with 2.5 lb weights 3 sets of 10 - too much and never with weights!
leg presses on what I call a sled with 2.5 bands of tension 3 sets of 10 - too much and never with bands!
Terminal Knee Extensions with 17½ lbs of weight 25 times held for five seconds each - horrendous!
Other activities like calf stretches, quad sets and etc are interspersed - well those aren't too bad provided you weren't doing huge amounts like those above. I'd say 5 reps of anything once a day is plenty.

All in all, I'd say you should never have been given such a gruelling programme before at least 12-14 weeks and then in amounts far less than you have stated. The bridges and butterflies are probably responsible for your hip pain which I will comment on further when you have given me the site of the pain. But I think I already know what it is.

I do think this was overdoing it and led to the partial tear and partial patella detachment.
No kidding!
 
Here are our recovery articles:
First are the BoneSmart mantras ....
- rest, elevate, ice and take your pain meds by the clock
- if it hurts, don't do it and don't allow anyone - especially a physiotherapist - to do it to you
- if your leg swells more or gets stiffer in the 24 hours after doing it, don't do it again
- if you won't die if it's not done, don't do it
- never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lie down, never stay awake when you can go to sleep!
- be active as much as you need to be but not more than is necessary, meaning so much that you end up being in pain, exhausted or desperate to sit down or lay down!

Next is a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) thread.

And here are some very crucial articles
The importance of managing pain after a TKR and the pain chart
Myth busting: no pain, no gain
Swollen and stiff knee: what causes it?
Activity progression for TKRs

Healing: how long does it take?
Chart representation of TKR recovery
Energy drain for TKRs
Elevation is the key
Ice to control pain and swelling

Home physio (PT) and activity progress: suggestions
Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
Myth busting: on getting addicted to pain meds
Post op blues is a reality - be prepared for it
Sleep deprivation is pretty much inevitable - but what causes it?

And then some wise words from members who have shared their experiences ...
Where are you in recovery?? (TKR)
Five “P’s” of knee recovery
TKR: work “smarter” and not “harder”
Recovering a knee - from one who knows!
It's never too late to get more ROM!
It's worth the wait for ROM
 
[Bonesmart.org] Injury at 7 weeks out from TKR
@Reich4313, You may notice that I have merged your two threads. We like to keep our members' recovery posts all in a single thread. That way it's easy for us to go back and read your history before responding to a question or concern. In addition, the thread becomes a journal of your recovery for those who come along later and want to read about you. So, please post in this thread from now on when you want to give an update or ask a question. If you have questions or concerns that need an immediate answer, please tag an admin, a mod, or other members or all three.

If you decide you'd like a different thread title at any point, you can change it using the Thread Tools button at the top right of the page or just post what you want here and we'll get it changed for you. THANKS!


If you are having a problem locating your thread, here is a link with how to do it: How can I find my threads and posts?
 
@Reich4313 If you have a low grade fever, redness, hot to the touch I'd be into the doctor right away. I ended up with a minor infection Three weeks ago and that was scary as hell. If it gets ahead of you they sometimes need to open it all up and flush it and as my OS said the scar tissue doubles complicating ROM. With your tear and Patella issue I'd err on the side of caution. I just finished my 2 week course of antibiotics last Wednesday and it seems to have done it for me but I see my OS this Tuesday to follow up. They did run a bag of antibiotics on an IV for me when I first went into Emergency as well and I think that helped. Hope it turns out to be nothing too serious for you. Keep us updated.
 
Hi Josephine,

1-The hip pain is at CR2F just where the star is in the larger graphic. I've had this hip pain ever since I woke up in the hospital after surgery but never before that.

2-I made a mistake on the tylenol amount. I take two 500mg tabs each time. I thought they were 250mg.

3-I am going to walk less! The exercises I do only use weights on the leg lifts and presses and that was before tear. Now I am on a strict pain free and no weight regimen until further notice!

Thanks Again!
 
@oldrugbyprop what led you and your OS to believe you had an infection? I sure hope you got ahead of it and I'll keep you posted. My fever and chills came back like three days after the course of antibiotics. I am trying to get in to see my OS today but we just had a blizzard in Chicago so that's questionable. Definitely taking day off, I don't want to be walking around in this!
 
1-The hip pain is at CR2F just where the star is in the larger graphic. I've had this hip pain ever since I woke up in the hospital after surgery but never before that.
I would suggest that this is remaining post-op pain which has been exacerbated by your exercising with weights.
2-I made a mistake on the Tylenol amount. I take two 500mg tabs each time. I thought they were 250mg.
Okay.
3-I am going to walk less! The exercises I do only use weights on the leg lifts and presses and that was before tear. Now I am on a strict pain free and no weight regimen until further notice!
Weights should never be used in post-op exercising. Totally unnecessary. Recovery is not strength training.
 
My Knee, or surrounding tissues, actually seem to be getting worse. Since my re-injury ten days ago, this is by far the worst it's felt. Sunday was a very light day with only light walking and stairs around the house. Monday was a snow day and I did very little. Sunday swelling was down, redness diminished and was not hot, stiffness was greatly diminished. Monday was more painful, swelling and redness increased and stiffness also increased. Today, Tuesday, the stiffness is bad and my ROM is greatly diminished. I can hardly bend. What could have happened? Slept on it funny? I am back to worrying about infection.:chinstroke: Anyone been through something like this? Even after my re-injury, my knee and leg felt better than they do now.
 
Sometimes I find stormy weather flares up my knee with pain and swelling. It should get better as the storm passes. Is your knee hot? If you are concerned about infection call your OS's office.
 
Reich you really need to stop the PT....I cannot imagine a Physician telling someone to exercise away a muscle tear.....most people after TKR experience warmth around the knee but if it is hot and red all around that is almost a sure sign of infection.....a minor setback by giving up PT for the time being and the you can get back on track.....

Vinny
 
Going to get a second opinion this Thursday morning. If this continues to worsen I may go to ER tonight, Tuesday or Wednesday.



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Your muscle tear is bound to be difficult and cause more pain. I think, if you were to keep a log, that these flare-ups are connected with just a bit more activity than previously. Rest is your answer and lots of it! Treat it like a fracture which is not in a cast!
 
@Josephine I sure hope you are right! I am very afraid I have an infection since it is much worse than it was a few days after the injury. It is all red and puffy. I am icing and elevating right now and will see the second opinion doctor in the morning.


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@Josephine you sure seem to have been right. The partial tear and detachment does not require immediate surgery. Second opinion doc wants to heal for four more weeks, take it real easy and hope it heals enough to not require surgery. I do not need PT until further notice as they can not safely do anything for me. I have to do a lot of hamstring stretches, ride stationary bike with no resistance and do lots of quad sets. No isometrics.

He is not concerned about infection but that I am overdoing it. In short, Josephine was right about everything!

Thanks!!!!!


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