bertschb
member
United StatesSo jealous here. Happy for you but very jealous.
TKR 6 weeks out - just need the truth
- Thread starter diannedawn
- Start date
Red's Mom
graduate
You will get there with patience and stretching. At 5 months my LTKR is 140 and I can finally do the runners stretch again. My RTKR at 4 months is lagging but SLOWELY Improving. My OS said the extension is limited to 0 and the flexion could mechanically be 155. Unfortunately my chubby calf gets in the way! My goal is heels to butt by the two year point. Patience and gentle stretching. Lots of patience. I used a stretch strap to gently do the runners stretch before I was able to grab my ankle.
155 is the degree a knee replacement can bend to in theory - and when the hardware is outside your body. However, unless you're really, really thin (almost skeletal), you're not likely to achieve that, because your soft tissues will get in the way, as Red's Mom realises.
If you achieve a ROM of about 110 degrees, that is enough for most people to function normally in their everyday life. More is nice, but not absolutely essential. What you can do with your knee (function) is more important than the numbers.
This article explains a lot about ROM:
ROM (range of motion) information
If you achieve a ROM of about 110 degrees, that is enough for most people to function normally in their everyday life. More is nice, but not absolutely essential. What you can do with your knee (function) is more important than the numbers.
This article explains a lot about ROM:
ROM (range of motion) information
Jennszoo
post-grad
I've often wondered bc it's my thighs and calves that get in the way of my Flexion. I don't think I could ever get to 140+.
We have the same surgery date and you are doing great. Gentle bending and patience and time will get your goal. But the patient part is hard. I had my right knee done four years ago. At 3 months then I flew to Chicago. Walked all over and around the Navy Pier and streets, visited museums. Not long after that I went hiking the rocky trails.
I am hoping to do that welll this time.
Walking and exercise bike are good for me now. I ice and elevate also.
I actually complained about still having to ice. My daughter reminded me it is only my sixth week and I was swelling more and doing less at this point with my other knee yet in 6 more weeks I was with her doing all sorts of things in Chicago.
So just keep reminding yourself you are getting better and better.
I am hoping to do that welll this time.
Walking and exercise bike are good for me now. I ice and elevate also.
I actually complained about still having to ice. My daughter reminded me it is only my sixth week and I was swelling more and doing less at this point with my other knee yet in 6 more weeks I was with her doing all sorts of things in Chicago.
So just keep reminding yourself you are getting better and better.
Chaca
junior member
Okay now. Seven months post TKR. Improvements are slower than expected, however I am still having the rubber band sensation especially after sitting. Just a little numbness still near the knee cap. Any encouraging information would help. More patience needed
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
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Josephine
NURSE DIRECTOR EMERITA
Seven months can still be early - ROM: it's never too late to get more ROM!
The tight band is related to that.
The numbness will last for quite a while yet Numb area after TKR: how long will it last?
The tight band is related to that.
The numbness will last for quite a while yet Numb area after TKR: how long will it last?
diannedawn
new member
I hope everyone is ready to make 2019 a Happy New Year! This will be the year that my TKR turns 2 in March.
Nothing much has changed for me since my prior posts... no dramatic changes in the amount I can bend my knee. Believe me I have tried to make it bend more. Then there was the time I fell with it bent underneath me and thought maybe I would be able to bend it more after that. Nope.
I know that most, maybe all, of you will say (like my doctors) that I should be “happy” with the amount it does bend....that I am doing fine...maybe even great....that others can not bend as much, and I am “able to bend it as much as can be expected”.
I’ve had doctors tell me that the amount I can bend my normal knee (see a pic of left knee bend in thread...I am able to pull my heel to my butt in a quad stretch, able to squat with my butt on my heel, able to sit with my foot flat under me) is “unusual”...
I find these statements to be ridiculous. I watch T.V./read magazines and I see umpteen images of women doing the things I’ve described. There are many yoga poses (hundreds of thousands of people do yoga) that require you to be able to bend your knee completely, and many more that may not require you to bend it completely, but it needs to bend further than I can bend mine! I do not believe for one moment that any reasonably fit women can not squat on her heels etc.
All the women around me can! Watch any child playing...they can bend their knees completely. When these doctors try to tell me that MY normal bend is “not normal” it just makes me angry. How dumb do they think I am?
I guess there are a lot of people out there who can bend more than “normal”...so maybe they are using the wrong definition of “normal”?! LoL
I have learned to accommodate my not so bendy knee. But I will never have my other knee done until the technology improves and I know I will be able to bend my knee completely afterwards. I need to have at least one knee that I can bend all the way.
Maybe I just live a different lifestyle? Here is an example...let’s say you are standing on something high, maybe like a high stool...about your hip height or slightly taller, and you need to get down. You can get down if you stretch down with your one foot, but this requires your other leg to be folded up completely while you step down. The only way I can get down now, is to lead with my right leg, since the left one is the one that can bend. If neither of them can bend, how would I get down? Now if it really was a stool, I could slide off both feet together. But what if I was climbing on a rock face?
My TKR has been good in some ways. I do have less pain. But I used to be able to do ANYTHING I wanted and I was only limited by how much pain I was willing to endure to do it.
Now I physically am unable to do certain things.
Is that really “better”?
Not in my world.
Nothing much has changed for me since my prior posts... no dramatic changes in the amount I can bend my knee. Believe me I have tried to make it bend more. Then there was the time I fell with it bent underneath me and thought maybe I would be able to bend it more after that. Nope.
I know that most, maybe all, of you will say (like my doctors) that I should be “happy” with the amount it does bend....that I am doing fine...maybe even great....that others can not bend as much, and I am “able to bend it as much as can be expected”.
I’ve had doctors tell me that the amount I can bend my normal knee (see a pic of left knee bend in thread...I am able to pull my heel to my butt in a quad stretch, able to squat with my butt on my heel, able to sit with my foot flat under me) is “unusual”...
I find these statements to be ridiculous. I watch T.V./read magazines and I see umpteen images of women doing the things I’ve described. There are many yoga poses (hundreds of thousands of people do yoga) that require you to be able to bend your knee completely, and many more that may not require you to bend it completely, but it needs to bend further than I can bend mine! I do not believe for one moment that any reasonably fit women can not squat on her heels etc.
All the women around me can! Watch any child playing...they can bend their knees completely. When these doctors try to tell me that MY normal bend is “not normal” it just makes me angry. How dumb do they think I am?
I guess there are a lot of people out there who can bend more than “normal”...so maybe they are using the wrong definition of “normal”?! LoL
I have learned to accommodate my not so bendy knee. But I will never have my other knee done until the technology improves and I know I will be able to bend my knee completely afterwards. I need to have at least one knee that I can bend all the way.
Maybe I just live a different lifestyle? Here is an example...let’s say you are standing on something high, maybe like a high stool...about your hip height or slightly taller, and you need to get down. You can get down if you stretch down with your one foot, but this requires your other leg to be folded up completely while you step down. The only way I can get down now, is to lead with my right leg, since the left one is the one that can bend. If neither of them can bend, how would I get down? Now if it really was a stool, I could slide off both feet together. But what if I was climbing on a rock face?
My TKR has been good in some ways. I do have less pain. But I used to be able to do ANYTHING I wanted and I was only limited by how much pain I was willing to endure to do it.
Now I physically am unable to do certain things.
Is that really “better”?
Not in my world.
DIYSteve
member
Whether it's better is up to you. Confucius said happiness is wanting what you have, not having what you want. Translation: Key #1 to happiness is setting obtainable expectations.
I'd LOVE to get to 125 flexion with my new knee, although I'm prepared not to get there. (I was 115 max pre-op due to bone spurs and huge calf muscles.) I'm at 100-105 @ 5-1/2 months out, more active than I had anticipated (skiing, hiking up to 12 miles, stairs no problem). First mile of bicycling is a bit stiff, but it'll get better.
If I get to 115 at the one year mark, I'll be a happy camper.
Good luck to you
Yeah, some rock moves require big flexion, but some get around in the mountains fine with limited flexion. Years ago I did some serious mountaineering routes with a bud with 95 flexion (bad knee). He did fine. 99% of the American population could not have done those routes for lack of strength, skills, nerve and/or overall athleticism. (My bud subsequently got bilateral TKRs, improving his flexion to c. 110. He now averages 100 ski days/year.)
I'd LOVE to get to 125 flexion with my new knee, although I'm prepared not to get there. (I was 115 max pre-op due to bone spurs and huge calf muscles.) I'm at 100-105 @ 5-1/2 months out, more active than I had anticipated (skiing, hiking up to 12 miles, stairs no problem). First mile of bicycling is a bit stiff, but it'll get better.
If I get to 115 at the one year mark, I'll be a happy camper.
Good luck to you
Ceegee
junior member
Hi there,
I'm sorry you're not happy with the outcome of your TKR. I'm around the same age as you, am also physically active (sports, hiking, etc.) and am now 10 months post-op. My flexion is hovering somewhere between 120 and 125, and hasn't moved for the last few months. I'm told it will improve over time, but I'm not expecting much more than 130. The joint was very compromised before the TKR and I can still feel the muscles and other components learning to function in a new way.
However.
Before the operation, I could hike on moderate ground, but only for short distances, because the pain was just too much to bear. Now, I can hike long distances - 10 miles or more - on moderate to rough hilly ground with no pain whatsoever. That, in my book, is a life-changing improvement. Pre-op pain sucked the joy out of much of my life; it's been wonderful to re-discover the pleasure of physical activity. Also, my gait has become normal again, since I can straighten the knee fully (couldn't do that before), with the result that the aches and pains in the hip and knee of my "good" leg have gone away.
There are work-arounds for most of the inconvenient aspects of having less flexion. I can't climb a rock face, but I can (and do) run, jog, walk long distances, ride a bike, roller skate, compete in agility trials with my dog and ski (carefully) on moderate slopes. I can get up and down ladders easily (I put Christmas lights around our house's gutters this year). I can't step down from a high stool, but I can step down from a normal chair and I have a 3-step mini-ladder that I use when I need a higher reach - for example, to change the filter in our ceiling vent (it's also safer than a high stool). As you point out, you were limited before the operation by pain; now you're limited by flexion. Before, you were able to work around the pain. Maybe you can work around the flexion now.
My surgeon told me before the operation that he tended not to operate on younger patients (under 70) if they were very active because they expected too much and were often dissatisfied with the results. It's always seemed clear to me that a metal joint could never be as flexible as a healthy bone joint, but since metal joints are put in to replace unhealthy bone joints ...
When my dad was dying of cancer 20 years ago, his Macmillan nurse (in England) told him: the trick to living with this disease is to learn to enjoy the life you have now, and not fret about the life you wish you had. It was wise advice and I've followed it in other situations since then, including my TKR.
I wish you all the best!
I'm sorry you're not happy with the outcome of your TKR. I'm around the same age as you, am also physically active (sports, hiking, etc.) and am now 10 months post-op. My flexion is hovering somewhere between 120 and 125, and hasn't moved for the last few months. I'm told it will improve over time, but I'm not expecting much more than 130. The joint was very compromised before the TKR and I can still feel the muscles and other components learning to function in a new way.
However.
Before the operation, I could hike on moderate ground, but only for short distances, because the pain was just too much to bear. Now, I can hike long distances - 10 miles or more - on moderate to rough hilly ground with no pain whatsoever. That, in my book, is a life-changing improvement. Pre-op pain sucked the joy out of much of my life; it's been wonderful to re-discover the pleasure of physical activity. Also, my gait has become normal again, since I can straighten the knee fully (couldn't do that before), with the result that the aches and pains in the hip and knee of my "good" leg have gone away.
There are work-arounds for most of the inconvenient aspects of having less flexion. I can't climb a rock face, but I can (and do) run, jog, walk long distances, ride a bike, roller skate, compete in agility trials with my dog and ski (carefully) on moderate slopes. I can get up and down ladders easily (I put Christmas lights around our house's gutters this year). I can't step down from a high stool, but I can step down from a normal chair and I have a 3-step mini-ladder that I use when I need a higher reach - for example, to change the filter in our ceiling vent (it's also safer than a high stool). As you point out, you were limited before the operation by pain; now you're limited by flexion. Before, you were able to work around the pain. Maybe you can work around the flexion now.
My surgeon told me before the operation that he tended not to operate on younger patients (under 70) if they were very active because they expected too much and were often dissatisfied with the results. It's always seemed clear to me that a metal joint could never be as flexible as a healthy bone joint, but since metal joints are put in to replace unhealthy bone joints ...
When my dad was dying of cancer 20 years ago, his Macmillan nurse (in England) told him: the trick to living with this disease is to learn to enjoy the life you have now, and not fret about the life you wish you had. It was wise advice and I've followed it in other situations since then, including my TKR.
I wish you all the best!
I love this!
My partial has not had a good outcome and I need to take this on board as I gear up for a round of second opinions and make decisions for my future.
Even with my bad outcome I did get back to the bowling I enjoyed before. I had to change my approach to the throw line, but I’m doing what I like and spending time with my friends.
@diannedawn My surgery was the same day as yours.
diannedawn
new member
I guess I should have my New Years resolution be to enjoy the life I have and not fret about the life I wish I had.
That does seem to be good advice.
As I said, I have learned to accommodate my not so bendy knee...
But I guess I need to quit dwelling on the fact that it’s never going to be like before and just find more work arounds.
And accept that I will never be doing some of those yoga poses.
That does seem to be good advice.
As I said, I have learned to accommodate my not so bendy knee...
But I guess I need to quit dwelling on the fact that it’s never going to be like before and just find more work arounds.
And accept that I will never be doing some of those yoga poses.
You never know, you could still get more ROM. I certainly didn’t have the 125 early on, well, not by myself. I did when they force bent it. 
As time has gone on and I healed, my bend has improved. It’s around a real 125 ish. The important part, for me at this point, is that I healed to the point that my whole leg has relaxed and allowed my bend to improve.
It’s very disappointing to not get the outcome we expect. I have never been an athlete, so there weren’t specific activities I wanted to get back to. I just wanted to get through the day comfortably.
I didn’t even get that. I have more discomfort and limitations now than I did before my partial. I have a reasonable bend, but I can’t put any weight on my leg when my knee is bent. Thus having to redesign my bowling approach. I almost fell into the refrigerator section of a store last week, because I couldn’t bend enough and lean in, to get what I wanted. (I bend just fine if I’m sitting on a chair.)
It doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that a revision will fix it. It never occurred to me that I wouldn’t get a good outcome.
I dread doing this over again.
As time has gone on and I healed, my bend has improved. It’s around a real 125 ish. The important part, for me at this point, is that I healed to the point that my whole leg has relaxed and allowed my bend to improve.
It’s very disappointing to not get the outcome we expect. I have never been an athlete, so there weren’t specific activities I wanted to get back to. I just wanted to get through the day comfortably.
I didn’t even get that. I have more discomfort and limitations now than I did before my partial. I have a reasonable bend, but I can’t put any weight on my leg when my knee is bent. Thus having to redesign my bowling approach. I almost fell into the refrigerator section of a store last week, because I couldn’t bend enough and lean in, to get what I wanted. (I bend just fine if I’m sitting on a chair.)
It doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that a revision will fix it. It never occurred to me that I wouldn’t get a good outcome.
I dread doing this over again.
I am echoing what everyone else is saying. Your range of motion is amazing at this point. I am at 7 weeks with 110 unassisted and my PT considers me ahead of schedule. One thing he did say to me that may help you is that when you get your range coming along quickly early on it is normal for it not to make those Leaps and Bounds ongoing. He reminded me that even if your body gives you one or two degrees week on average from here on in, you will get there over time. He also said you may level for a week or two, and then take a little jump forward. The key thing is he assured me things will progress. This helped me get my head around the fact it is a fairly unpredictable process due to so many varied factors along the way. He has also made me feel really comfortable about the fact that you may lose ground at times, but not to panic has things do come down and come back on track. I went to a New Year's party and stayed too long. Even though my friends were awesome and let me have my leg up and use my ice. The elevation was not very high and just staying there a few too many hours not only wiped me out, but also had my leg blow up and get stiff I feel like I lost a good week or so. I used to panic when this would happen, but with the encouragement and information from my PT and more experience as the weeks go on, I no longer worry about this and know things will calm down in a few days with rest ice and elevation and I'll get back on track. You are doing amazing and I think you will be really happy with your outcome over time.
robert johnson
member
It's a shame we never get to find out how things turned out for Diane. Having just read this, one year and nine months after the fact, I have an immense desire to know what her ROM is now (ok, so I have a lot of time on my hands).
It's like reading an Agatha Christie Mystery without ever finding out who dun it. Not to mention, it would be very valuable information.
Such is life.
It's like reading an Agatha Christie Mystery without ever finding out who dun it. Not to mention, it would be very valuable information.
Such is life.
Dinaehelen posted on Monday (New Year's Eve) that her flexion had not changed much from the 120-125 degrees she achieved about 6 weeks post-op.
It's still possible for that to improve.
One of our members (Campervan) posted that, at 6 years after her TKR, she had discovered her flexion had increased:
"I had a slow recovery. Here's my flex measurements at various points:
92 - 8 weeks post op
105 - 10 weeks
107 - 5 months
110 - 6 months
112 - 7 months
116 - 9 months
119 - 11 months
118 - 1 yr
120 - 1yr 2 months
125 - 1 yr 8 months
128 – 6 years "
It's still possible for that to improve.
One of our members (Campervan) posted that, at 6 years after her TKR, she had discovered her flexion had increased:
"I had a slow recovery. Here's my flex measurements at various points:
92 - 8 weeks post op
105 - 10 weeks
107 - 5 months
110 - 6 months
112 - 7 months
116 - 9 months
119 - 11 months
118 - 1 yr
120 - 1yr 2 months
125 - 1 yr 8 months
128 – 6 years "
robert johnson
member
Thanks Celle. Diane's thread raised an interesting point for me. Namely, how much ROM do we really need to be satisfied. I never gave it much thought, because I was never exactly the kind of person who could sit in the lotus position, and I was totally satisfied with the outcome.
But, I can see how a flexible person might look at it differently now.
But, I can see how a flexible person might look at it differently now.
These are the approximate degrees of flexion needed for activities of normal daily living:
- 65° to walk
- 70° pick an object off the ground
- 85° to climb up stairs
- 95° to stand from a sitting position
- 105° to tie shoelaces
- 115° (or greater) to mini-squat or sit cross-legged
- 125°+ covers most activities. However, squatting or sitting on your heels may always prove challenging.
robert johnson
member
My LTKR knee measured 125+° last month, but you're right about the challenging part. If I'm doing something on the ground in the yard, I'll usually bring a thick rubber pad and kneel on my right knee, with my left foot on the ground, rather than squat. I can squat briefly, but for some reason I always had a little fear of dislocating the center post if I put too much force on it at that degree of bend. And I'm not anxious to hold that position very long.
Not sure if there's merit to that fear, but I read about it happening once, and asked the doctor if it's possible, and he said yes, it's possible. Not sure what I'll do after the right knee is also a TKR knee.
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