MUA On the other (dark) side and struggling!

[Arielyn]

The story in this thread make my blood boil.
The many hundreds of folk who pass through here take our advice, and not once have I read a report saying the BS way doesn't work. If it doesnt, where are all the hundreds of folk walking about with stiff legs!!! They would certainly tell us!
I've had both knees replaced here in the UK, no PT has ever even touched my legs, and I've had 2 brilliant recoveries. Do they teach ignorance in some PT training and surgeon courses?
It's common sense when you think about it.

If a PT continued to touch me after I told him to stop, I'd get him charged with assault.

Anyway, rant over. But Arielyn, have faith in us and common sense, you'll be OK.

It was worse than a PT, it was the physician assistant. I was gutted. My husband was in the room as well, and he and I had quite a row afterward. I was angry that he hadn’t jumped up and said something, but he insisted he was so shocked that by the time he realized what was happening, it was over. Every time I have seen that PA since (and he is the only PA in the office) , I have felt a cold sweat. He actually scares me. After this happened, I called trying to find a new OS, but no practice locally would take a patient still in recovery. One stated that they would consider me as a transfer at the one year mark. I felt like I was applying to attend a university rather than pay a doctor for care. I did ask my OS just before going in for my MUA (before the sleep meds kicked in) to please make sure that Bill (the PA) didn’t kill me. I wasn‘t joking. :(

By the way, just curious as to where in the UK you are located. My husband immigrated here to the states from England twelve years ago after we met online. He is from Lowestoft, and though he has acclimated well, he really misses Bovril and the coast. ;)

 

[Arielyn]

So glad you were led to Bonesmart Arielyn. Reading your TKR journey left chills up my spine. So unfair. I have always held physicians in such high regards. I still do until I hear of 'extreme' experiences as what you have endured. I so feel for you.

Very happy you are now surrounded by excellent support here at BS!

During my first RTKR back in 2016 I was left to recover with very little pain management from my OS. Regulations had started coming down hard against opioid abuse in the US. I too have a low tolerance for pain and although my experience was nowhere near what you and others here have suffered, my personal 'trauma' was bad. Seasoned Bonesmart members here gave me the information I needed for a more comfortable recovery and because of that advice, I felt like doing 'their' recommended exercises. The members here became my family during that time and gave me so much daily encouragement & mental support.

Fast forward two years and it's time to replace my left knee. Because of what I learned here in 2016 however, I was able to sign up for this replacement with an edge. I needed a local hospital and OS to replace my knee, yes. What would happen from the moment I was discharged out of post-op recovery and into a hospital room however would be 'my' call. Ortho surgeons here are discharging replacement patients the next morning which I'm not opposed to as long as they don't hinder or damage newly replaced knees in the process.

I chose not to roll off the side of my hospital bed hours post-op to jump through their discharge hoops. I 'politely' told the hospital's PT upon our first visit that my surgical knee would not be climbing his steps backward in order to be discharged the next morning. He was taken back by my 'leadership' however he had no choice but to accept my proclamation, lol!

I honestly knew when I stepped into Registration the morning of my surgery that I was going to manage most of my post-op care with what I had learned here in BS and that felt really GOOD!

It is empowering knowing you are at the helm of your knee replacement recovery. In 2016 I had a PT supervisor slam my knee forward in order to report 'her' acceptable range of motion.

She changed me that day.

I now give the order as to what will or will NOT happen in a therapeutic setting. I did so with the in-take PT service person who came to 'sign me up' while in the hospital. Because having the profits my case would bring was most important to this company, the supervisor quickly agreed to my requirement for 'passive PT'. That if I didn't feel like therapy on any given day, it wouldn't happen. He told me he would document my case so that his staff would understand. We shook hands upon his departure and I have had absolutely no problems with PT's since!

I'm almost 4wks post-op and my PT person has been a dream. My insurance allows 3- 1-hr. sessions a week I've had only 2 sessions with her during my 3.5wk post op time. My terms!

Live in these pages as you feel up to it. The wealth of knowledge, experience & friendship here is endless!

Sending positive healing thoughts & hugs your way! -Suzie

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I am so jealous of your ability to take total control with such confidence. It’s strange, really, because in every other aspect of my life I am intense, in control and have that confidence. With my medical care, however, I often feel like a sheep being led to the slaughter. I become some ridiculous shrinking wall flower. I think, at least with this surgeon, that I am so afraid he will drop me, and I won’t be able to find another surgeon to see me through recovery. At some point my left knee needs to be replaced as well. Originally that was scheduled for the first week of January, but I don’t want my current OS to do this surgery, so I need to wait until I can find a practice willing to take me.

I have my next appt., a follow up to my MUA, on Dec. 25, and I’m making myself sick with worry about it. Bill, the PA, generally conducts these appointments or is, at the very least, in the room with the doctor. i just want to make it through that appointment.

 

[Jockette]

I’ve been on Bonesmart for almost 3 years. I’ve leaned a lot and come a long way. My original surgeon will not be operating on me again. I dreaded all my check ups with him, and I had more check ups than most other members here. I wanted to cancel my 7 month check but was afraid to go against protocol.

That has changed. Next time around, if I am feeling that things are going along fine, I’m not going to lots of check ups. Some of our members are actually discharged at the 6 week check up and their doctor tells them they can always call if they have an issue.

Next time, all I really need a surgeon for is to install my new hardware, and prescribe some pain medication for the early days. After that, Bonesmart and I can handle the rest, unless there are complications, of course.

Try not to be intimidated by your medical team. They have already betrayed your trust, so you don’t owe them any further allegiance. Keep the next appointment if you feel you have to, but you have every right to refuse to let them touch your leg. Just talk to them. If they don’t like it, too bad for them. As @lovetocookandsew likes to say, just because your surgeon installed your new knee it doesn’t mean he owns it.

Be strong and know that we are with you in spirit. When I went to my 7 month check up, I did not get up on the table (where he would have easy access to my leg.) I stayed in the regular chair and told him I’d bend my knee myself. I pictured all my Bonesmart friends lined up and sitting on that empty table! My surgeon was cooperative with me at that appointment, but he hassled me a bit when I said the same thing at the one year check, but I had already decided that it was my last appointment with him.

 

[Tykey]

Ah, Bovril! Wonderful stuff, I love nothing better than a banana and Bovril sandwich (ship some over and try one, they are brilliant)
Lovely county is Suffolk. We live up near Sheffield so quite a long way off there. We do take the caravan down there. Last time we were in Lowestoft they were digging up the town centre and it took an hour or two to get out. Your hubby will know of Dunwich, a fantastic history and great fish and chips in the beach cafe! Up the coast to sample Southwold beer. No doubt we will be back next year if it ever stops raining.
Where are you?

 

[kneeper]

I have my next appt., a follow up to my MUA, on Dec. 25, and I’m making myself sick with worry about it. Bill, the PA, generally conducts these appointments or is, at the very least, in the room with the doctor. i just want to make it through that appointment.

I know it's easier said than done, but do you think you could call the OS office and ask to talk to the nurse or even your doctor about this bad experience with the PA? Or talk to your general doctor about it and have him/her have a word on your behalf so you don't have to see that PA again?

 

[Celle]

Take someone with you to your next appointment, as backup, and to speak up when you can't.
If it's going to be your husband, talk about it to him beforehand and tell him what you want him to do.

Make a list of things you want to say, just so you don't forget. Show it to your support person and ask him/her to speak up if you feel you can't.

I wonder if your surgeon knows how much his PA bullies his patients. He may not, so make sure that he does know because, sooner or later, someone is going to sue that man for assault.

 

[Arielyn]

I’ve been on Bonesmart for almost 3 years. I’ve leaned a lot and come a long way. My original surgeon will not be operating on me again. I dreaded all my check ups with him, and I had more check ups than most other members here. I wanted to cancel my 7 month check but was afraid to go against protocol.

That has changed. Next time around, if I am feeling that things are going along fine, I’m not going to lots of check ups. Some of our members are actually discharged at the 6 week check up and their doctor tells them they can always call if they have an issue.

Next time, all I really need a surgeon for is to install my new hardware, and prescribe some pain medication for the early days. After that, Bonesmart and I can handle the rest, unless there are complications, of course.

Try not to be intimidated by your medical team. They have already betrayed your trust, so you don’t owe them any further allegiance. Keep the next appointment if you feel you have to, but you have every right to refuse to let them touch your leg. Just talk to them. If they don’t like it, too bad for them. As @lovetocookandsew likes to say, just because your surgeon installed your new knee it doesn’t mean he owns it.

Be strong and know that we are with you in spirit. When I went to my 7 month check up, I did not get up on the table (where he would have easy access to my leg.) I stayed in the regular chair and told him I’d bend my knee myself. I pictured all my Bonesmart friends lined up and sitting on that empty table! My surgeon was cooperative with me at that appointment, but he hassled me a bit when I said the same thing at the one year check, but I had already decided that it was my last appointment with him.

I so wish you were closer, as I’d recruit you to come with me to my appointment the day after Christmas! You sound so strong. If being here and participating in the conversation will help me toward that end, count me in. I wonder if it’s ok to “interview” a surgeon when choosing who will do my left leg? I feel like if I upset the apple cart that I will be blacklisted...how’s that for paranoid? ;)

 

[Arielyn]

Ah, Bovril! Wonderful stuff, I love nothing better than a banana and Bovril sandwich (ship some over and try one, they are brilliant)
Lovely county is Suffolk. We live up near Sheffield so quite a long way off there. We do take the caravan down there. Last time we were in Lowestoft they were digging up the town centre and it took an hour or two to get out. Your hubby will know of Dunwich, a fantastic history and great fish and chips in the beach cafe! Up the coast to sample Southwold beer. No doubt we will be back next year if it ever stops raining.
Where are you?

We are in the US, in Canonsburg, Pennsylvania, about 25 miles south of Pittsburgh (home of American football team the PITTSBURGH STEELERS!).
Somehow Bovril and bananas just doesn’t instill any great enthusiasm...lol. Just the smell from the jar turns me off, I’m sorry to say! Michael says he LOVES Dunwich, which he says is the freshest fish you can get without eating it off the line. He hasn’t been home in the twelve years since he has been here, in no small part because I HATE to fly! We hope someday to get him back to visit. As for Southwold beer? He says he really enjoyed Adnams Brewery!

 

[Arielyn]

I have my next appt., a follow up to my MUA, on Dec. 25, and I’m making myself sick with worry about it. Bill, the PA, generally conducts these appointments or is, at the very least, in the room with the doctor. i just want to make it through that appointment.

I know it's easier said than done, but do you think you could call the OS office and ask to talk to the nurse or even your doctor about this bad experience with the PA? Or talk to your general doctor about it and have him/her have a word on your behalf so you don't have to see that PA again?

It’s a very small practice, with two surgeons, including mine, though the other one is retired. My OS and his PA are very close it seems, and I’m not sure i would be comfortable. I do intent, however, to write a very long letter once I find another practice. I just wish I had the courage to do so now.

 

[Arielyn]

Take someone with you to your next appointment, as backup, and to speak up when you can't.
If it's going to be your husband, talk about it to him beforehand and tell him what you want him to do.

Make a list of things you want to say, just so you don't forget. Show it to your support person and ask him/her to speak up if you feel you can't.

I wonder if your surgeon knows how much his PA bullies his patients. He may not, so make sure that he does know because, sooner or later, someone is going to sue that man for assault.

Immediately after reading your post, I called my sister and asked her to clear her calendar on the 26th so she can go to this appointment with me. She is extremely outspoken, was over the top angry when I told her what had happened, and begged me not to let them touch me again to do the MUA.

As for my OS, I have to believe he knows about his PA. The practice is just too small for him NOT to know. Together they make a formidable team. I just wish I had the courage to bring the assault charge. I don’t think I will ever, no matter how long I live, forget that intent look in his eye as he ignored my pleas and just kept pushing, nor will I ever forget that pain that nearly led me to passing out. Someone else mentioned a PT that changed her—and I feel exactly the same way about this PA. At 56, he managed to undo all the goodwill I have experienced from a plethora of doctors in my past. I doubt I will ever again fully trust a medical professional.

 

[Jockette]

doubt I will ever again fully trust a medical professional.

It’s such a shame that these professionals put us in this position. I will have a hard time trusting a PT in the future.

I will certainly be interviewing my next surgeon. I am hoping for a surgeon that I can work with, as in being partners, to get me through a joint replacement. I would really love one who is caring. I also don’t plan to go to formal PT next time and I’d really like a surgeon who won’t hassle me about that. I don’t know if all that will come true.

I’m glad you called your sister. And I’m sure your husband will be on the lookout, too, at that next appointment. He was just as surprised as you were. I’m sure my husband would have also figured it wouldn’t have gone as far as it did.

You sound so strong

I am not strong at all, I have great fear of going through this surgery and recovery again. But between my experience, and the experiences of other members, no one is going to push on my leg again, unless they are sneaky and I don’t see it coming.

Just be strong and know that their treatment is absolutely not necessary, therefore, you don’t have to put up with it.

 

[kneeper]

I'm glad your sister will be there for you.

 

[InkedMarie]

I’m so thankful that my surgeon never mentioned numbers. He only told me that however flat I was at 3 mos, that was likely how flat I’d be. Numbers weren’t important. I was in physical therapy from mid September to December 31 and I was measured three times, all at my request due to upcoming post op appointment. Neither my surgeon nor his PA ever measured me. I’m around 120 so/0. My bend isnt what it was prior to surgery and that’s ok. The only thing I can’t do is squat but I don‘t need to.

 

[Arielyn]

Very, very difficult day, and it’s only 9:50 am! Last night, for whatever reason, my leg was aching so badly that I just couldn’t sleep. I read most of the evening and well into this morning, alternating ice and heat every hour. When my husband got up at 7:00 am to get ready for work, he helped me onto my CPM, and I couldn’t dial up past 100 at all during that two hour stint without screaming. Now I’m lying here, with my ice machine whirring the chill around my aching knee and dreading this afternoon’s PT. I have to take a hospital provided shuttle, which is actually a van without much leg room. By the time I get to PT, it takes me minutes to actually unfold myself out onto the curb and into my walker. Then I get to repeat that process coming home, after an hour of exhausting work. Once home, it’s another half hour of ice, then two more hours on the CPM. All I want to do it snuggle down under my comforter and sleep.

Sorry to vent, but every time I think I’m getting ahead, the pain kicks in, and I am again pushed back. Tomorrow will be eight weeks since my TRKR, and six days since my MUA. I keep waiting to turn that corner everyone talks about, but to date it is still elusive.

If anyone is reading, thanks for sticking with me. Just before my husband left for work, he turned to me and said, “try not to be in so much pain this evening. We need a good night without that.” Yeah. No kidding. I‘ll just order that right up.

 

[Starsfan22]

Bless your heart. Hopefully time will help. This tough time should pass. Notice I didn't say will pass. I'm in my 5th month and haven't seen the corner, only ups and downs with a few good days thrown in.

 

[Jockette]

Stop using the CPM machine and cancel your PT appointments. Both those things are not helping you, they are maintaining your extreme level of pain. If you continue this routine you could end up with chronic inflammation and pain. You don’t want that.

You need to rest, ice and elevate so your poor overworked leg can settle down.

That trip in the van and getting in and out of it is very bad for you. An hour’s painful “work” is bad for you.

Take charge of your recovery and stop this madness. Not all surgeons and PTs agree with what you are being made to do.

Saying no to therapy - am I allowed to?

 

[Jockette]

I want to do it snuggle down under my comforter and sleep.

This is exactly what you should do. And you have our permission and blessing to do it.

 

[Helizabug]

I hope you take that rest! You and your knee deserve it.

This is new territory for most of us, and it doesn’t help that it can be new territory for our therapists, or, worse, a well trodden rut that they can’t see out of.

Tend to your precious new knee and yourself with kindness.

 

[Macknit]

Please give yourself permission to be kind to yourself! I was writing when @Helizabug 's post popped up. I echo her sentiments!

Positive thoughts and prayers are with you for Thursday's appointment! I'm grateful you have your sister going also.

“try not to be in so much pain this evening. We need a good night without that.”

I'd ask Dear Husband if he has some special incantation to just whisk away that pain??? We all could use that!

Holiday Blessings!

 

[Arielyn]

Thanks so much to all who took the time to respond to my “feeling sorry for myself” post. I can’t believe I did it, but....I cancelled my PT appointment!!! on one hand, I feel majorly guilty, and I know that my OS is going to have a go at me for it at my appointment. on the other hand, I feel tearfully relieved to be able to just take care of myself emotionally, if not physically. I am, indeed, snuggled down in my bed with Poppy, my little Yorkie. I feel, at least for the moment, content.

If I don’t check back before my appointment, “Merry Christmas” to those who celebrate, and “have a peaceful day” to those who don’t.