MUA Request an MUA?

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WillK

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I'm pretty sure that at some point in the near future I'm going to need an MUA.
My ROM, for the lack of a better word, sucks and it's not getting any better.
I saw my doctor last week and he was not surprised with my lack of ROM and didn't even discuss an MUA.

I would hate to go through four more weeks of hell, or PT as it's known, only to end up needing the manupulation anyway.

Is there a standard amount of time that must past after surgery before an MUA can be performed?
I know people on here are very supportive and will probably tell me it's early and I should be patient. But this isn't an imptatient thing, it's just a feeling I get that's where I'm headed...
 
Hi,
I am about 9 months after my new knee. I worked all summer with exercise, water therapy, etc. and the pain was/is still there. Saw my OS last week and went over everything that I had been doing. Now I am being scheduled for an MUA because of all the scar tissue that has been built up. I am quite sure that I should have had this procedure much sooner, but I kept thinking things would get better and they didn't. I would suggest that you get it done before long. From what I have been reading on this site and elsewhere that people feel so much better after the MUA.
Good Luck,
 
Well, it's a complicated issue. Tis true that people who need an MUA feel better afterwards, but knowing who does really need it and who doesn't is key. As I recall, you had your surgery on 29th Oct which means you are only 4 weeks post op. This is far too early to be considering an MUA.

Fact is, you are slap bang in the middle of the 'angry tissue' period, when almost anything and everything you do results in swelling and pain. The swelling acts like a plaster cast and prevents your knee from bending. Then you get into the vicious circle of getting frustrated and working at your knee to make it bend, it swells more and gets more painful so you can get less bend. And so it goes on.
Fact is, your knee has all the bend in it you could wish for, but you're not giving it a chance to surface!

There is an answer and that is to manage the swelling and the pain for a while. Once you have that reduced, your knee will bend a whole lot better.

So you need to calm down on the exercise (flexion really doesn't have to be 'fought' for) and concentrate on rest, elevation, icing and pain meds. If, after 3 or 4 weeks of doing this you still haven't got a decent ROM, then go and chat to your surgeon. Another thing, read skigirl's thread The Life of a Slug. Her first knee she was like you, all up and at it and having a tough time with swelling and pain and no bend. Second time around she followed this regime and she was fine! I hope she'll come and talk to you about it. @skigirl:

And MUAs can be done any time but 4 weeks is far too soon.

Read these threads, I think you will find them useful ....
The importance of managing pain after a TKR and the pain chart
How Long Does Healing Take ......
Elevating your leg to control swelling and pain
Discussion on managing pain in TKR surgery
Using ice

It's never too late to get more ROM!
Myth busting: on getting addicted to pain meds
 
Jo, I have read all those, I just think I'm frustrated. First, I have the utmost respect for my OS. I like him, that's why I picked him out of the six docs I "interviewed". But I actually had a near argument with him at my check up last week about pt. The conversation wasn't disrespectful, but he did throw in that he and pt's spent a lot of time going to school and training and are pretty smart when it comes to knees.

My response was I've spent 42 years with this body, 22 with a bad knee and I'm an expert on my body and I listen to what it tells me.

The argument was, I have read and been told that a low-load stretch (a passive stretch over a long period, say 30 minutes) is more beneficial than a dynamic stretch, say like an active stretch by a pt for two or thee minutes). He agreed with me, but said I still had to do the dynamic stretching and pt.
I then argued the point that I need muscle strength (especially in my VMO) to help with ROM more naturally. Having ROM does no good if you don't have strength to move the leg. He says I need ROM to get strength. I disagree.

I think I'm going to go British- quit PT and start following the Royal Family Wedding plans! ;)
 
Well, the short answer there is, who is employing whom? He might well be the cleverest chap going but as you say, it's your body and you employed him to do your knee. The rest is up to you and he can't force you to do anything!

If perchance, it doesn't work, the worst that can happen is he can say "I told you so"!!!! But I think - nay, I'm sure - that the boot will be securely on the other foot!
 
Will,

First, let me say that you are in a frustrating time with your knee---it is a time of hey, I have been so good for a whole month, what is with this knee--I want to do stuff!! Unfortunately, this is a long recovery and there is absolutely no way to rush things. You are starting to move, but at four weeks, I probably spent 50% of my time lying in bed, with my knee on three pillows making sure that the swelling in my knee went down.

I had lots of fights with my OS too--and he asked me at least twice when i got my MD!! My husband is a doc (not an OS) so I AM a doctor's wife!! but seriously, you cannot expect compassion from a surgeon--that is just not going to happen. However, they DO know something about knees!

I am also an "informed patient" I see myself as part of a team--and my pt also saw himself as part of the team, which did help a lot. I wonder if your pt is really the right one for you. Ben is a Phd in pt and is both gentle and compassionate--plus, he was 100% behind my idea of getting fit for skiing.

In fact, you are correct in that you need your quads to get full extension--and the VMO is often very weak after knee surgery. My doc was always rather uninterested in my rom, he never measured--just "eyeballed " my knee. He did jump out of his chair and get a measurement however at my six month check up when he realized that my rom was 150---he did share the credit with me--that I had done the work after his brilliant surgery to get this wonderful success.

Seriously though, my rom was about 110 at four weeks--but and this is a very big but, I was in bed about 90% of my day in the first two weeks and then about 70% in the next two weeks and at four weeks about 50% of the time. I feel (this is my opinion here) that you have to keep the swelling down as much as possible in the beginning sothat it does not become "chronic". If you do too much--walking, standing, cooking, cleaning, checking out the garage or the stores---your knee will swell. When the knee is swollen, the rom drops.

So, here are some thoughts. 1. talk to your pt and get his take on what is happening. Does he think the lack of rom is from swelling or mechanical--scar tissue? What does he suggest? I would never allow anyone to push on my leg until it hurts---if that is happening, you do need a new pt--a professional who works with you. Be honest about your activities to him/her and find out what he thinks? Too much? too hard? Does your pt massage your swelling? mine did and it helped a lot. Also they used ultrasound to get the swelling down. I am amazed that some pts just look at a leg and decide it needs to be pushed. Maybe it needs to be in a whirlpool bath or massaged or iced.

I found lots of fun at pt--my pt helped with the swelling. He helped me with specific exercises that worked my muscles. We made sure that all the quads were working. idid lots of leg lifts and biking. I liked the interaction with the other patients too--we did a lot of laughing and there was support for the blue days too.

So, I would not walk away--plenty of pts do really know a lot about knees--and they are useful and helpful during your recovery. Maybe you have the wrong type of pt right now? Get a new one. I am six months out and feeling pretty strong. I hiked up Big Mountain--2.5 miles and 2000 vertical feet carrying my skis and boots and then skied down--it was fun! and once was quite enough. But, don't loose track of the big picture here---right now, you need to rest so that you can be running around at six months. Kelly
 
Thanks, Kelly - knew you'd do the 'biz'!
I think I'm going to go British- quit PT and start following the Royal Family Wedding plans! ;)
:hehe: must have missed this - cool idea! Tell me what happens! :zzz:
 
Thanks for the info, Kelly. I like the thought about switching PT, but I live in a small town, so they're the only show in town. I think I'll tone things down for a bit, which includes not going to PT. Honestly, I can do the excercises they're having me do here at home or at the YMCA, plus beginning Monday, I can get into the pool. Also, I found that although I can't bike yet, I can walk on the elliptical for five minutes and my knee feels good- gets the blood circulating and the knee loosens up.

But you're both right, I probably need to cut back and take it easy.

Thanks for the advice! :)
 
I have to say hearing some of the stories on here about PT's here in the US is down right frightening! I live in upstate New York, and thankfully have found a PT that is compassionate and listens to me. I am 3 weeks out from a RTKR, and they are still doing very gentile exercises. I am there for about 30 minutes and it is mostly stretches, heel slides (yuk), small machine work etc. They ice me as soon as I am done, but I can honestly say they do NOT hurt me. I feel better after I leave and they leave it up to me if I want to come 1, 2 or 3 days a week. They gave me exercises to do at home and are constantly asking me if I am alright. I honestly think the PT can be a good thing, but they must be understanding as to where you are in your recovery. They have not even measured me yet, they just eyeball my knee as I am working. I hope everyone that chooses to go to PT, takes the time to find someone knowledgeable, and compassionate. There are still some pretty rough days ahead, I know, today is one, but I figure a little bit at a time!! Again everyone, thanks for being here, sure feels good to pop in and feel right inline with everyone talking!
 
An experienced PT or OS can easily eyeball your ROM. They have years of experience and really don't need a ruler!
 
DebR, I absolutely agree; PT can be a good thing. I'm not knocking PT and believe people should go, if the situation calls for it. Being that this is my 11th knee surgery, I'm no stranger to PT and I've always had great experiences in my past therapy.

My problem with my current PT is the aggressive stretching (it actually says that on my folder). I feel it's counter productive; I exercise, my knee feels better. Then they stretch me for 10 minutes and they're excited about the ROM I get, only to have me leg swell and regress to a position of protection. I'm gaining nothing. My body is telling me this is not working for me.
I am buying into what Jo and Kelly are telling me, which is less may be best until my knee calms down.

I'm glad you are having a good experience at PT. :)

-Will
 
You know the old saying, Will - less is often more!!
 
The PT I saw after my escape- er, I mean release from the hospital was all about the ROM too. After I hit the "magic number" (to them) of 90 degrees, I was set free. I gained more ROM on my own, just doing everyday stuff. The disabled guy just sort of expected me to be able to pick up where I left off four years before the surgery. (I'm leaving out the eventual diagnosis of fibromyalgia- which is doing well, for those concerned!).

The PT I had while in the hospital's rehab ward was more about gaining ROM, but about my comfort and strength as well. The after-release PT didn't seem so interested in my muscle strength.
 
WillK
I feel that you are making a good decision. After 11 surgeries, you should know all the techniques and which techniques work for you. It is not brain surgery.
Best to you,
David
 
I agree with your decision, Will. I would be interested to know how you're getting aloing....is it helping?
 
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