mms
new member
I am 8 weeks out RTKR and still having trouble sleeping. I have been using Ambien CR for the last 2 1/2 weeks and thought that I would try a night without it....I was up all night! Please someone tell me it will get better!!
will I sleep again
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edk
senior
Three quick questions:
1. Did you have trouble sleeping pre-op? If so that's what you can expect post.
I assume not so
2. Are you still taking narc pain meds. They seem to be a good news bad news
thing. They keep you from hurting but really screw up your sleep patterns. If
you wean yourself from them sleep might get better. I slept better with a bit of
pain controlled with OTC pain meds and strategic pillows than with Vicodin.
3. Yes with time but its an individual thing. Don't be afraid to take a nap to survive the
day.
Good luck
1. Did you have trouble sleeping pre-op? If so that's what you can expect post.
I assume not so
2. Are you still taking narc pain meds. They seem to be a good news bad news
thing. They keep you from hurting but really screw up your sleep patterns. If
you wean yourself from them sleep might get better. I slept better with a bit of
pain controlled with OTC pain meds and strategic pillows than with Vicodin.
3. Yes with time but its an individual thing. Don't be afraid to take a nap to survive the
day.
Good luck
stwalker
junior member
I am 7 1/2 weeks out and I wake up every time I move my knee. It is so stiff at night. I take 1 Tylenol PM and 1 Reg Tylenol and sleep much better. I too think pain med messes up my sleep so I try not to take it before bedtime.
Sue
Sue
Turtlelady53
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MMS,
I am definitely having exact same issues. I am almost 7 weeks out of bilateral TKR. I don't have a problem going to sleep; just can't STAY asleep. I just get totally agitated in the evening and get horrible restless leg symdrome. I usually go to bed around 10:00 but am wide awake by midnight. I have tried Tylenol PM and Ambien with little results. The only thing that helps me go to sleep is my Dilaudid, which is a narcotic; however, I am trying desparately to ween myself off of them but always give in around 2:00 a.m. I have been sleeping in a spare bedroom since my bed looks like a war zone in the morning with all the tossing, turning, and pillow arranging. I want my hubby and my own bed back!!!
Sharon
I am definitely having exact same issues. I am almost 7 weeks out of bilateral TKR. I don't have a problem going to sleep; just can't STAY asleep. I just get totally agitated in the evening and get horrible restless leg symdrome. I usually go to bed around 10:00 but am wide awake by midnight. I have tried Tylenol PM and Ambien with little results. The only thing that helps me go to sleep is my Dilaudid, which is a narcotic; however, I am trying desparately to ween myself off of them but always give in around 2:00 a.m. I have been sleeping in a spare bedroom since my bed looks like a war zone in the morning with all the tossing, turning, and pillow arranging. I want my hubby and my own bed back!!!
Sharon
mms
This is a problem all of us have. I posted earlier on what my sleep doctor said (I have another problem with sleep so that is why I have a sleep specialist) so you might want to look for that post.
I am heading to 8 weeks and finally am getting some good sleep but it was a long haul.
The problem according to the doctor is something that happens with major surgery and it is called learned insomnia. The problem is that your schedule gets upset and then after a bit of time without sleep you start getting anxious about not sleeping. The more you don't sleep the more anxiety you start generating and the less you will sleep. Also the harder you try to sleep the worse it gets and then you start doing things like going to bed earlier which is not a good idea.
In another post I think it was Dedicated Dad said he sleeps better knowing he does have some sleeping pills in the house which goes right along with the anxiety.
She suggested that the best thing is a short course of an anti-anxiety agent like lorezapam. She also suggested the book No More Sleepless Nights by Peter Hauri. The book has alot of suggestions depending on what your problem is.
So try and relax, go to bed only when you are really sleepy. The one program from the book that worked for me was if you don't fall asleep in a short period of time get up and go to another room and do something until you get sleepy. If you go to bed and still don't fall asleep, get up again. Then make sure you set your alarm clock and get up at your usually time not matter how little sleep you get. I am still having a bit of a problem falling asleep but I am finally sleeping through the night.
I did not think the problem would end but it did. I found the lack of sleep the biggest problem, more than pain or PT.
Good luck.
I will update the post when I get back from the doctor tommorrow.
SImon
This is a problem all of us have. I posted earlier on what my sleep doctor said (I have another problem with sleep so that is why I have a sleep specialist) so you might want to look for that post.
I am heading to 8 weeks and finally am getting some good sleep but it was a long haul.
The problem according to the doctor is something that happens with major surgery and it is called learned insomnia. The problem is that your schedule gets upset and then after a bit of time without sleep you start getting anxious about not sleeping. The more you don't sleep the more anxiety you start generating and the less you will sleep. Also the harder you try to sleep the worse it gets and then you start doing things like going to bed earlier which is not a good idea.
In another post I think it was Dedicated Dad said he sleeps better knowing he does have some sleeping pills in the house which goes right along with the anxiety.
She suggested that the best thing is a short course of an anti-anxiety agent like lorezapam. She also suggested the book No More Sleepless Nights by Peter Hauri. The book has alot of suggestions depending on what your problem is.
So try and relax, go to bed only when you are really sleepy. The one program from the book that worked for me was if you don't fall asleep in a short period of time get up and go to another room and do something until you get sleepy. If you go to bed and still don't fall asleep, get up again. Then make sure you set your alarm clock and get up at your usually time not matter how little sleep you get. I am still having a bit of a problem falling asleep but I am finally sleeping through the night.
I did not think the problem would end but it did. I found the lack of sleep the biggest problem, more than pain or PT.
Good luck.
I will update the post when I get back from the doctor tommorrow.
SImon
NJW
junior member
MMS,
You are absolutely not alone! I am almost 8 weeks post BTKR. I'm no longer using prescription pain meds; just Advil. I have trouble going to sleep and then staying asleep. I agree with Simon that the "going to sleep" part is a more learned response. I go to bed worrying about whether I will sleep. After a few hours, I fall asleep. Then I begin waking up because my knees begin getting sore. That's when I get up and take some Advil. I wind up with a total of about 4 hours of sleep. I've got Ambien to take and it works great but I feel groggy the first few hours the next morning. I'm now trying to read until I'm really sleepy. I bought some lavender spray I'm going to try on my pillow. I agree 100% with Simon. I'm going to have to work to overcome my anxiety and re-learn how to sleep. Sounds like we are all in the same boat. Hang in there!
Nancy
You are absolutely not alone! I am almost 8 weeks post BTKR. I'm no longer using prescription pain meds; just Advil. I have trouble going to sleep and then staying asleep. I agree with Simon that the "going to sleep" part is a more learned response. I go to bed worrying about whether I will sleep. After a few hours, I fall asleep. Then I begin waking up because my knees begin getting sore. That's when I get up and take some Advil. I wind up with a total of about 4 hours of sleep. I've got Ambien to take and it works great but I feel groggy the first few hours the next morning. I'm now trying to read until I'm really sleepy. I bought some lavender spray I'm going to try on my pillow. I agree 100% with Simon. I'm going to have to work to overcome my anxiety and re-learn how to sleep. Sounds like we are all in the same boat. Hang in there!
Nancy
AlaskanTKR
graduate
mms -
This is when I realize how different each person's recovery is. I am almost 3 weeks out and since week 2 I can't say I have had trouble sleeping. I do tend to stay up later which may help. I go to "bed" at midnight and usually sleep until 4 - originally I was taking a med at that time but no longer do. I roll over and sleep until 6 when my alarm goes off - I call my hubby when he is at work to make sure he is up and moving - then roll over adn sleep till 8 when I take pain meds - I move to the chair in my room and usually fall back asleep till 10 or 10:30. Last night was even better - Went to bed at midnight - slept till 6, closed my eyes and slept till 8 - took meds, moved to chair and slept till 10:45. Now if I could just get rid of the swelling -
Good luck - the only thing I do that may help with the sleep is to make sure I don't sneak in any cat naps after 6 pm. I fight to stay awake.
Hang in there!
Marianne
This is when I realize how different each person's recovery is. I am almost 3 weeks out and since week 2 I can't say I have had trouble sleeping. I do tend to stay up later which may help. I go to "bed" at midnight and usually sleep until 4 - originally I was taking a med at that time but no longer do. I roll over and sleep until 6 when my alarm goes off - I call my hubby when he is at work to make sure he is up and moving - then roll over adn sleep till 8 when I take pain meds - I move to the chair in my room and usually fall back asleep till 10 or 10:30. Last night was even better - Went to bed at midnight - slept till 6, closed my eyes and slept till 8 - took meds, moved to chair and slept till 10:45. Now if I could just get rid of the swelling -
Good luck - the only thing I do that may help with the sleep is to make sure I don't sneak in any cat naps after 6 pm. I fight to stay awake.
Hang in there!
Marianne
Dedicated_Dad
junior member
Josephine is (as usual) right. It WILL get better. The Ambien CR helped me stay asleep.
I also found a body pillow to be a god-send. I used to trash the bed but with the body-pillow I don't seem to move at all. I won't wake up until my shoulder is hurting from laying on it, even without the Ambien.
I always thought it was stupid, but... Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!
DD
I also found a body pillow to be a god-send. I used to trash the bed but with the body-pillow I don't seem to move at all. I won't wake up until my shoulder is hurting from laying on it, even without the Ambien.
I always thought it was stupid, but... Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!
DD
Sue Z
new member
Once again Thank goodness for this web site. I am almost 3 months post op and still have nights that I can not get to sleep. I have yet to see the Dr for Ambien but will do so next week. I also have trouble staying asleep if I do get to sleep. It really is annoying because then the next day I feel to wrung out to do my stretches and walking. Hope it gets better soon.
Sue Z
Sue Z
lgobrien
member
Sue -
At 9 weeks PO I too have trouble falling asleep. I will take a Tylenol PM sometimes, but one doesn't seem to do anything and two makes me too drowsy in the morning.
I can fall back asleep when I wake up during the night, but usually it's very late (or early in the morning) before I can fall asleep. Then in the morning (like today again), I'm dragging. I really need to get to work, but luckily, my hours are flexible. I try to make it in around 9-10am...
But I do not look forward to bedtime, (except all morning long LOL). Hopefully it gets better...
Must be something about the surgery. I never had any problems going to sleep before.
Laurie
At 9 weeks PO I too have trouble falling asleep. I will take a Tylenol PM sometimes, but one doesn't seem to do anything and two makes me too drowsy in the morning.
I can fall back asleep when I wake up during the night, but usually it's very late (or early in the morning) before I can fall asleep. Then in the morning (like today again), I'm dragging. I really need to get to work, but luckily, my hours are flexible. I try to make it in around 9-10am...
But I do not look forward to bedtime, (except all morning long LOL). Hopefully it gets better...
Must be something about the surgery. I never had any problems going to sleep before.
Laurie
I so can relate to all of you! I have such a terrible time with sleeping at night! I'm 8 weeks out with LTKR, and I am really exhausted all day because I cannot seem to get comfortable to sleep at night. I do find that vicodin helps at bedtime, but I don't want to be taking that, so I've tried Advil, Advil PM, Tylenol PM, and Melatonin. Nothing has worked. Maybe I'll try staying up and reading until I get tired.
My kids start back to school in 2 weeks. I'm not sure if this is a good thing, or a bad thing because I'll be forced to get up in the morning. This might, however, help to make me tired at bedtime. I'm hoping to find something, and if I ever do, I'll BE SURE to pass it on! It sounds like it is a real problem!!!
Hess
My kids start back to school in 2 weeks. I'm not sure if this is a good thing, or a bad thing because I'll be forced to get up in the morning. This might, however, help to make me tired at bedtime. I'm hoping to find something, and if I ever do, I'll BE SURE to pass it on! It sounds like it is a real problem!!!
Hess
beachcomber
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Hess,
If it is knee pain that is keeping you from getting comfortable enough to sleep and the pain is not relieved enough by Alive or Tylenol..... taking a sleep formula will not take away the pain. You have to deal with the pain itself.
At 8 weeks many of us "winter knees" were still taking pain meds at least *some* of the nights. Why are you not willing to take a vicodin or 1/2 of one if it will allow you to sleep, heal, and live your normal life?
It is normal to still have pain at 8 weeks.
I hope you find relief soon.
If it is knee pain that is keeping you from getting comfortable enough to sleep and the pain is not relieved enough by Alive or Tylenol..... taking a sleep formula will not take away the pain. You have to deal with the pain itself.
At 8 weeks many of us "winter knees" were still taking pain meds at least *some* of the nights. Why are you not willing to take a vicodin or 1/2 of one if it will allow you to sleep, heal, and live your normal life?
It is normal to still have pain at 8 weeks.
I hope you find relief soon.
1jt@atime
supremo
900 Beach! I'm coming up behind you!
Hess, Beach is right.... For some reason the first time around, I found the vicodin would keep me awake, but this time, it's actually helping me sleep. Maybe I've just gone crazy, but then, I think that's alright.... I've been through a lot. Yes, take the vicodin if it will help you sleep! It is okay at our point in the recovery.... I am sleeping well on "most" nights. Karen
Hess, Beach is right.... For some reason the first time around, I found the vicodin would keep me awake, but this time, it's actually helping me sleep. Maybe I've just gone crazy, but then, I think that's alright.... I've been through a lot. Yes, take the vicodin if it will help you sleep! It is okay at our point in the recovery.... I am sleeping well on "most" nights. Karen
Lbee
junior member
Nine weeks out from knee surgery and sleeping better. It improves slowly, but improves. Hang in there...
Thinking of you and sending sleepy thoughts at night...
Lbee
Thinking of you and sending sleepy thoughts at night...
Lbee
AlaskanTKR
graduate
Sleeping is such a pain in the rear. I think my sleep issues are going to get me into trouble this week. I haven't had the same trouble many of you have had since last week. Right now I am going to bed a 11 - falling asleep by 12 Last night I woke at 6, rolled over and woke at 8 - achy knee took one hydrocodone and moved to my soft, smuchy chair and 1/2 and fell asleep till almost 11. I start back tomorrow to school and have to be ready to go b4 8AM. UGHHHHHHH
By the by - all the good sleep is on one hydrocodone and 2 store brand (Kroger) sleep aid pills. I don't count the rolling from back to side as being awake - I think of it as just a momentary move. ( I roll about 8 times per night but have figured out how to do it with pillows and my eyes closed!)
Here's a hope for all of us to have happy dreams tonight!
Marianne
By the by - all the good sleep is on one hydrocodone and 2 store brand (Kroger) sleep aid pills. I don't count the rolling from back to side as being awake - I think of it as just a momentary move. ( I roll about 8 times per night but have figured out how to do it with pillows and my eyes closed!)
Here's a hope for all of us to have happy dreams tonight!
Marianne
Doug
alpha
I just woke up again. I have a cold and can't breath through my nose. I hate spray Afrin because I've gotten addicted to that stuff several times.
I had sleep problems prior to TKR but it seems to have gotten worse since the surgery. I have to take something almost every night.
No pain in the knee now just very restless sleep.
People don't know how blessed they are to lay down and sleep all night.
I had sleep problems prior to TKR but it seems to have gotten worse since the surgery. I have to take something almost every night.
No pain in the knee now just very restless sleep.
People don't know how blessed they are to lay down and sleep all night.
Linda2
post-grad
I'm also having trouble with sleep--explains why I'm online at 2:00am. If I can sleep two hours at a stretch--that's good. I'm averaging about 4-5 hours total. I'm sure it will get better.
Hi There. If you search back you will see threads that were writted by me re sleeping. It was about 10 weeks before there was relief. I am 3 months now and sleep well. There was times when I thought sleep was something in the past and never will be the same again. Good Luck. IT WILL GET BETTER, DONT WORRY.
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