United StatesI was unhappy with my OS and decided to try a different one (closer and his reputation is good). I released my records so they could be sent to the new OS, but the records the new OS's office received did not include the X-rays that were taken on April 10. Turns out that in order to have my x-rays copied and sent to the new OS, it will cost me $30 because the clinic "owns" them and they are only paid to do them and read them. I was under the impression that X-rays are MINE! I was very irate because I'm so afraid that although my new OS has the x-ray equipment in his office he will say something like, "Well, you'll have to come back after I've examined the x-rays." My co-pay is pretty high and I don't want to make any more visits than I have to and I don't want to reschedule (my appt is tomorrow) because it's a month's wait for an appointment, it's about 40 miles away, plus it'll be about two months before he will probably do the surgery (if he agrees with the other OS) because he is in great demand. I did call my insurance company to ask if they will pay for a new set and as long as it's in the dr's office, they will pay 100%. If I had to go to another facility, they would only pay 80%. It's just been kind of stressful and I've spent a lot of time making sure that the new surgeon has what he needs. But this x-ray thing ticked me off. I know several of you have mentioned going to a second and third OS until you found one you liked. Did you have similar problems or is it just me?
Who actually owns your X-rays?
- Thread starter Roo73
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BigDog Mom
member
Hey Roo73,
I don't know where you are in the US but chances are your new OS is going to want a set of his own from his own office. The places I have been to you get your xray done before you see the Doc and by the time you are in the exam room with him/her they are up on the computer screen in the room.
It does seem to be a big hassle to get your records sent any where these days. They blame it on privacy laws but I think it is just lack of incentive to care. Maybe what you can do is have your primary Doc request them.
Best wishes,
Donna
I don't know where you are in the US but chances are your new OS is going to want a set of his own from his own office. The places I have been to you get your xray done before you see the Doc and by the time you are in the exam room with him/her they are up on the computer screen in the room.
It does seem to be a big hassle to get your records sent any where these days. They blame it on privacy laws but I think it is just lack of incentive to care. Maybe what you can do is have your primary Doc request them.
Best wishes,
Donna
Roo.....I decided to get both a second and a third opinion from different doctors after not being too happy with my first surgeon who had taken two sets of xrays during the course of a year. I told him I was getting additional opinions and requested to check out my xrays. That was permitted at not cost, but had I not brought them back, I would have owed about $30. I did bring them back until I finally settled in on the third surgeon I saw. I wanted him to have all xrays pertaining to my case, so I did go ahead and pay the $30 to have a set made for him. I had MRI's done at an outpatient facility and they were more than happy to give me my films at no cost, but told me there would be a charge if I ever needed them printed again. So, you might try asking to check out your films instead of requesting copies. Good luck!!
Yep, I'm afraid that anything generated by a hospital like xrays, lab reports, notes, etc., belong to the hospital/doctor, not to the patient. Patients are, by the freedom of information act which is common both in the US and the UK, entitled to see or have copies (at nominal cost) but the originals belong to the hospital.
I just paid £35 ($70) for copies of my xrays which came on a cd-rom so I think you $30 is a bargain!
I just paid £35 ($70) for copies of my xrays which came on a cd-rom so I think you $30 is a bargain!
ship4
graduate
I guess I am lucky then because the local hospital gave me mine to take down to the OS. The OS office took their own anyway......
mikey
junior member
I've been to two OS's in Atlanta. One charges, but Emory University Ortho put mine on a CD for free. Once you have these you can convert them to jpeg files for emailing by going to surfacehippy.info and downloading a file for this purpose.
Dr. Thomas Gross is who I have choosen for resurfacing. He still had to take another set. The technician lays a half dollar on you during the xray. He uses this image to help size the new femoral head. It gives him a known quanity to gauge the size of your natural femoral head.
Dr. Thomas Gross is who I have choosen for resurfacing. He still had to take another set. The technician lays a half dollar on you during the xray. He uses this image to help size the new femoral head. It gives him a known quanity to gauge the size of your natural femoral head.
My experience has been that hospitals are more likely to give films to you. You would think it wouldn't matter to anyone these days, given the fact that most of the imaging is done on computer and they have the original on file wherever they were taken! I guess it's the "old habits die hard" mentality. I could see passing the cost on to individuals if they have to make a copy they wouldn't normally make, though. A lot of our doctors and hospitals here in Kansas City are now fully digital. The xray or MRI is done digitally and then the doctor views it online....no films are made at all. Pretty amazing, I think! I always love talking with the technicians about the new processes and ask to see how the equipment works. It's fascinating! They've always been proud to show it off and it help me to know how things work.
I got my answer today at the OS's office - the first thing they asked me about was x-rays. I have no idea how the charges will be done because I had to walk across the hall to radiology so I doubt that it is considered part of the office visit. At worst, I'll have to pay 80% of the radiology charge. And they were digital there! And I really like this guy. I'm so glad I looked for another surgeon.
X-rays come under the provisions of copyright law, the creator of the x-ray is the owner unless specifically done as a "works for hire". Essentially the patient is a model and the hospital/radiology is the artist as a loose analogy with fields that are more commonly thought of as copyright related. That being said, I am sure a lot of hospitals are reasonable and provide copies, others no doubt charge the copying fee.
Considering a tablet of aspirin costs $12-15 in a hospital and a band-aid $5-8 $30 for 20 second of work by in copying is probably in-line or equally out of line.
I had an MRI and X-rays done on my hip and had no problem getting copies for free. The MRI was $100 and the last set of X-rays were $12 since my insurance at the time did not cover expenses related to a pre-existing condition.
Considering a tablet of aspirin costs $12-15 in a hospital and a band-aid $5-8 $30 for 20 second of work by in copying is probably in-line or equally out of line.
I had an MRI and X-rays done on my hip and had no problem getting copies for free. The MRI was $100 and the last set of X-rays were $12 since my insurance at the time did not cover expenses related to a pre-existing condition.
Interesting info, Stan. I like the analogy that the patient is a "model"!
I should have said, in the old days when xrays were actually film plates, on a couple of occasions I got copies for a nominal fee by telling them ahead of the procedure and they put two films in the cassette and gave me one! One really would think that nowadays with everything digital it would be easy, but as was explained to me, its the time of the techy guy to get the computer record and download it onto to cd-rom that costs! Gee wizz! I can do that in about 5 minutes flat!
I should have said, in the old days when xrays were actually film plates, on a couple of occasions I got copies for a nominal fee by telling them ahead of the procedure and they put two films in the cassette and gave me one! One really would think that nowadays with everything digital it would be easy, but as was explained to me, its the time of the techy guy to get the computer record and download it onto to cd-rom that costs! Gee wizz! I can do that in about 5 minutes flat!
I just had my 2 month follow up on my knees and i am pretty much done for 10 months til the 1 year. I asked if they would email me the xrays that they had just taken and he offered to just burn me the disc. No charge (unless it shows up on a bill later). The disc had both the before and afters. Pretty cool!
As to the model anaolgy - I suppose we, the models, sign away and rights to compensation for use of our likeness when we sign the permission to treat. Darn I knew I really should have read that thing.
As to the model anaolgy - I suppose we, the models, sign away and rights to compensation for use of our likeness when we sign the permission to treat. Darn I knew I really should have read that thing.
I'm not sure I accept all of that about the xrays being covered under copyright laws....after all, a photographic or artistic model gets paid for THEIR service and WE pay to have an xray or MRI made. I can understand that hospitals and other medical groups might need to retain copies for liability issues, but if you pay for an xray, I don't see how it can be a copyright issue. Maybe we should just insist on getting a modeling fee instead....LOL!!! My MRI guys (at a diagnostic facility) told me my images belonged to me. A doctor's office told me they owned them but I could check them out or have copies made for a price. Who knows? Guess you'd have to talk to a lawyer.
A hired model is paid for their time and services, the images created belong to the photographer. You might wait a long time before a clinic hires you to pose for their X-Ray machines if you wish to use your analogy.
You paid for the view and process of the mechanical, but rights to the image belong to the person or organization that created them. If you created them on their equipment the copyright would belong to you.
Although rights stay with them, but it is entirely in their options to grant license to you for your limited use.
A commercial photographer you hire for weddings or an ad has the copyright and grants you license to use the images in some defined way. You can not commercially publish your wedding photos without the photographers permission regardless of how much you paid him for the service at the wedding. If you do, he has a right to compensation because the commercial exploitation of his original work is likely outside the range of your license agreement you had for personal use. Read the fine print in the contract.
A clinic that creates images owns the images, but is able to provide them to a patient if they so choose.
The service that was paid for does not negate the copyrights of the creator. The tech who did them does not claim ownership of rights of copy because the tech was performing under the Works for Hire exclusion.
To belabor the point, if you take casual vacation snap shots and post them on the web, your publication does not end your copyright, nor do you have to explicitly claim or register your ownership, copyright comes automatically in the act of creating an original work. Granting public use does not transfer ownership, only use that the owner grants as a license.
A better analogy would be buying a CD. You are paying for the packaging, you own the plastic and cardboard but not any ownership of the creative works contained on them. You get Fair Use for non-commercial use, and the artist or songwriter retains the ownership. The publisher, artist and record company gives you a license to use the songs on the original mechanicals in a non-commercial way. Play your CD in your store or office and you might in for some hefty license violation fees.
All this is much ado about nothing, a $30 copy fee and implied license is fair. You can use them under fair use provisions but don't commercially exploit them. Demanding ownership as your right does not have IP law on your side however. Be nice and ask and you will likely get them. The only reason I wrote this was to lay the ground for the status of images made by a creator. You can do whatever you and the clinic decide, a copy and license is all you need anyway.
20 hours and counting for my THR tomorrow....
You paid for the view and process of the mechanical, but rights to the image belong to the person or organization that created them. If you created them on their equipment the copyright would belong to you.
Although rights stay with them, but it is entirely in their options to grant license to you for your limited use.
A commercial photographer you hire for weddings or an ad has the copyright and grants you license to use the images in some defined way. You can not commercially publish your wedding photos without the photographers permission regardless of how much you paid him for the service at the wedding. If you do, he has a right to compensation because the commercial exploitation of his original work is likely outside the range of your license agreement you had for personal use. Read the fine print in the contract.
A clinic that creates images owns the images, but is able to provide them to a patient if they so choose.
The service that was paid for does not negate the copyrights of the creator. The tech who did them does not claim ownership of rights of copy because the tech was performing under the Works for Hire exclusion.
To belabor the point, if you take casual vacation snap shots and post them on the web, your publication does not end your copyright, nor do you have to explicitly claim or register your ownership, copyright comes automatically in the act of creating an original work. Granting public use does not transfer ownership, only use that the owner grants as a license.
A better analogy would be buying a CD. You are paying for the packaging, you own the plastic and cardboard but not any ownership of the creative works contained on them. You get Fair Use for non-commercial use, and the artist or songwriter retains the ownership. The publisher, artist and record company gives you a license to use the songs on the original mechanicals in a non-commercial way. Play your CD in your store or office and you might in for some hefty license violation fees.
All this is much ado about nothing, a $30 copy fee and implied license is fair. You can use them under fair use provisions but don't commercially exploit them. Demanding ownership as your right does not have IP law on your side however. Be nice and ask and you will likely get them. The only reason I wrote this was to lay the ground for the status of images made by a creator. You can do whatever you and the clinic decide, a copy and license is all you need anyway.
20 hours and counting for my THR tomorrow....
Stan....you make excellent points. I can see where you are coming from now. But, you're right....."ownership" really doesn't matter. A person needs to just do what they need to do to get copies where they need to go, whether that means asking nicely or paying a fee. The real goal is to get parts fixed that need it! Thanks for taking time to write your post.
Speaking of Xrays... Josephine, on mine the spacer between on one knee is greater than the other knee. Why is that? OS/PA said xray looked good, so I'm more curious than concerned. And I didn't really notice it until I came home and looked at my disc of the xrays.
Because one that has the bigger tibial insert must have had either more wear on the bones and/or less tone in the the ligaments/muscles.
The inserts come in several sizes from 5mm to 15mm so that when they are selecting which ones, they can choose one that gives the correct tension/stability for the joint.
The inserts come in several sizes from 5mm to 15mm so that when they are selecting which ones, they can choose one that gives the correct tension/stability for the joint.
1jt@atime
supremo
Interesting Jo....Jenn, be sure and let us know if this is the case with you. I'll have to remember to compare after my upcoming tkr.
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