Knee Infection* Jvanp75's Thread

jvanp75

new member
Joined
Jan 1, 2018
Messages
8
Age
56
Location
Michigan
Country
United States United States
Gender
Male
I had left TKR on 12/28/16. Approximately 6 wks post-surgery I developed 3 DVT's in my left calf and 2 PE's in my right lungs. Spent 12 days in the hospital on heparin to dissolve the clots. In April 2017 I started having more swelling and additional pain. I just figured this was normal. At the beginning of May I couldn't take the pain any longer and the swelling wasn't going down even with ice.

I contacted my surgeon and he had me come in right away. He aspirated the joint and said he had never seen fluid like this. Sent the fluid off to be tested and everything came back negative 4 days later. I had seen no improvement in the swelling and the pain was excruciating.

I returned on May 28, 2017 to my surgeon and he aspirated the joint again, except this time it was under the knee cap. Again the same colored fluid came out and he was perplexed. He personally called the lab the following morning after he reviewed the lab results from the first aspiration and realized the lab did not do the correct test for staph that he ordered. He made sure they ran all of the correct tests.

I had an appointment on June 5, 2017 and was advised to bring suit case etc because if the tests were negative he was going to have to go in to find out what was wrong. When I arrived at my appointment time on that Monday, he said he had his nurse call me to just tell me to come in on Tues, tests were positive for MRSE, and he already had surgery scheduled for Tues. However, his nurse reminded him that I drove approximately 2 hours to arrive to his office so she didn't call. So on June 6 and June 8th he performed surgery, removing the poly spacer, debriding and washing the joint profusely each time.

I was then put on 6 weeks of IV Vanco at home and then an additional 30 days of oral minocycline. Two days after I finished the minocycline I knew the infection was still in the joint. The swelling, pain and heat in my knee was the same as before my surgeries.

During this time my surgeon had accepted a position out of state and was no longer available. The soonest I could get into a new surgeon, recommended by my original surgeon, was 6 weeks away. Finally on November 6, 2017 I could not take the pain any longer and went to the ER. The surgeon I was supposed to see on November 16th was at the hospital performing surgery. The ER staff contacted him in OR and let him know I was there and what was going on. He sent his PA to see me in the ER and she aspirated my knee. The fluid she drew off was the same color and consistency as previously and I let her know that. They also had drawn blood and had it processed right away for sed rate and CRP. Sed rate was 99 and CRP was 21. They admitted me and started IV antibiotics and I had surgery on November 8, 2017.

On the 8th he completely removed the implants, debrided the joint and put the antibiotic cement spacer in the joint. Surgical notes indicate that he had to remove damaged pieces of bone from all three leg bones due to the infection. I was discharged and started a new course of 6 weeks of IV Vanco.

I am now 2 weeks past the end of the IV Vanco and the swelling, pain and heat has returned to my knee again. I am scheduled to see the surgeon on Jan 16th, however I am calling the office on Tuesday to let them know what is happening. I am hoping they can get me in right away to do the aspiration and find out if the infection is in fact still there or not.

I haven't been able to find anything definitive in my searches of what the options are now if the MRSE is still in the joint. Quite honestly at this point my gut says to amputate above the knee and let me get on with my life. In the research I did, I did find where it states that most people that have to have an amputation end up wheelchair bound. That part I don't understand. Why wouldn't a prosthesis be feasible? I definitely do not want to be wheelchair bound, but I'm also not convinced that re-doing the cement spacer and Vanco again will work either.

I have surgery already scheduled for Feb 5, 2017 and at that point I will have been dealing with all of the swelling and pain for 14 months and basically losing a year of my life to this...
 
@jvanp75 , we’re going to start a thread of your own to advise you. Is a different surgeon doing this next surgery and has an infectious disease Dr been involved with your care? I know it’s not perfect, but I take a maintenance antibiotic after a staph infection in my TKR. I think I’d rather go that route than amputation. Also, there is a dr in Texas by the name of Dr. Maale who specializes in infections and revisions. If there is anyway you can get to him I would advise going that route. Where are you located and can you give us your surgery dates?
 
Hello @jvanp75 - and :welome:

You'll see that I have moved your post from kentucguy's thread to your own thread. We can talk about your knee is your own thread.

By putting the above post in his recovery thread, you were disrupting his thread, which should be about his own recovery.
Forum etiquette: being polite when posting

Please post any updates or questions about your recovery in your own thread. We will see them there, as someone checks all the new posts every day.
If you need an urgent response to a question, just tag a member of staff.
How to tag another member; how to answer when someone tags you

If you prefer a different thread title, just post what you want and we'll get it changed for you.

Just in case you couldn't find your thread, here are the instructions on finding your thread,
How can I find my threads and posts? . Many members bookmark their thread, so they can find it when they log on.
 
You've certainly been through the mill with this knee of yours, @jvanp75 !
However, try not to despair. We have had several people here with joint infections that have been successfully treated. @PegGar16 is one. It took a long time, but her knee is now doing well.

Amputation is an absolute last resort and not one that you need to be contemplating yet.
Quite honestly at this point my gut says to amputate above the knee and let me get on with my life. In the research I did, I did find where it states that most people that have to have an amputation end up wheelchair bound. That part I don't understand, why would a prosthesis be feasible? I definitely do not want to be wheelchair bound, but I'm also not convinced that re-doing the cement spacer and vanco again will work either.
I don't know where you found that statement that most people who have an amputation end up wheelchair-bound, because it isn't true. It depends on your age and on your general fitness.
My son has had an above-knee amputation (due to an accident). Not only is he not in a wheelchair, but he walks without even a stick. He limps slightly, but otherwise, you would not be able to tell that he has an artificial leg. He lives independently and he drives his own car.

Once all the infection in your knee has been cleared up, with an antibiotic spacer and appropriate IV and oral antibiotics, it will be possible to insert a new prosthesis, probably one with longer stems in the tibia and femur.
You do need to have a specialist Infectious Disease doctor on board though, as he/she is the one to interpret lab results and suggest antibiotic therapy.

I have surgery already scheduled for Feb 5, 2017
In light of the possible recurrence of infection, you do need to see your surgeon as soon as possible and this surgery date may have to be reviewed.

Is your current surgeon one who has a lot of experience in treating knee replacement joint infections? If not, consulting Dr Maale would be a good idea. He lives in Plano, Texas.

Do let us know how you get on.
 
I'm also going to ask @Josephine , our Nurse Director, to advise you. She has a lot of experience with orthopaedic surgeries.
 
I am now 2 weeks past the end of the IV Vanco and the swelling, pain and heat has returned to my knee again. I am hoping they can get me in right away to do the aspiration and find out if the infection is in fact still there or not.
Well an MRSE infection is pretty tenacious and can take weeks and maybe even months to get rid of. It certainly won't be done in two weeks, that's for sure.
I haven't been able to find anything definitive in my searches of what the options are now if the MRSE is still in the joint.
To be honest, I'm not convinced your surgeon is very experienced in dealing with PPIs (peri-prosthetic infections). It is a very exacting skill and there are not that many surgeons who know how to get to effectively grips with it. The type of bug needs to be identified. So far it seems they've just identified a species. That's a bit like saying it's a dog but not what kind of dog. That matters a lot in bacteriology.

The only surgeon I know of in the US that has developed this to a fine art is Gerhard Maale in the Fort Worth Dallas, TX. He is the 'go-to' person for these kinds of issues. He has developed a machine that can identify bugs genetically, if you please! And says he has even found totally new ones that no-one has ever seen before! This guy is mustard! But what it all means for you is that it's crucial that you are treated with the right kind of antibiotics. Vanco might work for run-of-the-mill staph infections but it sounds like it's not working for you.

I do suggest you at least get in touch with him and see what he has to say about your case. He will look at your records and xrays and give you his opinion by phone or email if you can't travel to see him.
Quite honestly at this point my gut says to amputate above the knee and let me get on with my life.
I can fully understand your feelings there but please, don't even think it!
In the research I did, I did find where it states that most people that have to have an amputation end up wheelchair bound. That part I don't understand. Why wouldn't a prosthesis be feasible?
The problem is that after weeks and months of infection and inflammation, the nerves and all the other tissues get a chronic pain condition called Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS or RSD). This means that the entire limb is enraged and so using a prosthetic limb would be out of the question because it would be very, very painful.

Yes there are lots of amputees that are walking around without problems, look at Paralympics and Invictus games! Look at athletes like Oscar Pretorius who won gold on his blades! But for people in your position it's not that feasible because possibly devastating effects of the infection.

Please go see Dr Maale or at least get in touch with him. You need his expertise, you really do.
 
Yes I actually have the Dean of MSU's Infectious Disease on my case. The surgeon that removed the implants and placed the antibiotic spacer is a new surgeon.

I've been trying with no luck to find the report that indicates the specific type of MRSE that I have. It is Vanco sensitive and I've done 2 six week series of IV Vanco. I saw my ID Dr on 12/20/17 and he was happy with the progress after reviewing all of my lab work. I see the surgeon again on 1/16/18 to have Lt knee aspirated and tested for infection. I am hoping that the results come back infection free and they can put in new implants.

I just like to know what all the possible outcomes, and my options are so I can make an informed decision. I am checking out the various links you've provided. Thanks for all the support.
 
My infection was a staph, but it was treated like MRSA with oral Rifampin and an IV antibiotic for 6 weeks. Let us know what happens.
 
to have Lt knee aspirated and tested for infection. I am hoping that the results come back infection free and they can put in new implants.
My understanding it that these tests invariably come back negative when the patient has been on antibiotics for even a short period of time.
 
Hi @jvanp75. I know how frustrating it is to go months working on the infection. I also had a very long process with multiple surgeries---never thought it would end, but it finally did and I am very happy with the results. Hopefully the aspiration will come back clean so they can replace your knee this month. You want to be better safe than sorry....the infection needs to be gone. As far as looking at all the different outcomes concentrate on one ..the best :)
 
Ask your OS when they aspirate your knee if they can send a specimen to Plano TX for genetic PCR testing and decodex sequencing DNA. This is what my revision surgeon did . It is much more accurate.
 
So the aspiration and all blood work came back negative for infection after the 6 weeks of Vanco and the antibiotic spacer was in place for 12 weeks. On 2/5/2018 I had surgery and the spacer was removed, all the tissue and bone looked good and new implants were put in. Tissue was sent off to be tested and it came back negative for any infections. I recovered from that quickly and continued doing all of my exercises I knew I needed to do. When I went to my first PT appointment I passed all of the tests very well and we started on week 3 exercises to strengthen my hips and improve my balance. Everything was feeling good and doing good.

Now fast forward to 3 weeks ago. I had gone out to a buddy's and spent the day with him as he prepped the area a new shed was going in at. I didn't help, was just there talking with him, getting out of the house. I was on my feet for well over 6 hours and by the time I was home it was hurting pretty good. I chalked it up to being on my feet so long, and I know that was part of it. I elevated and iced it like I knew I should.

After about 3 days the pain wasn't getting any better and the swelling wasn't going away like it normally would. I finally decided I better see my doc and see what he thinks is going on, or if it's just taking this long to recover from being on my feet like that (really didn't think that should be the case, but with my luck it was probably possible).

I went in last Tues and he wasn't happy at all. Being on my feet shouldn't be that much of a problem for this long. Additionally, the heat coming off and the deep red coloring was not indicative of just being on my feet, and I had not fallen or had any trauma to the joint. He aspirated my knee and the fluid was the same nasty coloring and consistency it was when it was infected.

He also had me sent for lab work for Sed rate and CRP testing along with all the other labs. He called me Thurs afternoon and let me know everything came back positive for an infection, and the same infection as prior. I meet with him on Friday to discuss options at this point.
 
I'm so sorry to hear that the infection seems to have come back. :console2:
Please let us know how you get on.

Were you still taking oral antibiotics? I know that most people who have had a joint infection continue to take antibiotics for a long, long time. I believe that @KarriB is still taking them.
 
Celle is right, I’m still taking a low dose (100mg) of doxycycline daily due to m infection. My ID says my blood work is good, but I still take the doxycycline to be sure the infection doesn’t return. I know it’s not the best solution, but I dont want to take a chance on it returning.

Please do let us know what the dr says. Do you see an infectious disease dr as well?
 
Yes I've been on oral antibiotics since leaving the hospital on Feb 9th. Have taken them religiously and never missed a dose. I don't know if ID doc will be there Friday as well, but I know my surgeon is conferring with him before I see him on Friday.
 
Oh no, I am so sorry your infection has come back. I'm glad you caught it and can now fight it.
 
Sorry to hear your infection has come back, you have been through a lot. You may want to ask for your infection to be sequenced to better match the antibiotics.
 
So I met with my surgeon and ID doctor today. The options presented were to have surgery to have a new spacer out in that would be left in for a year. Each 6 months they would go back in and do a wash. I would also be on IV antibiotics 12 weeks on, 3 weeks off. The other option was above the knee amputation.

Doing the 1 year option I would slit my wrists, I cannot go through that again. So on Jun 20th I will have surgery to have an above the knee amputation. It's actually a huge relief and I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
Tremendous decision you have to make for yourself. A decision not taken lightly. Investigate rehab facility specializes AKA( above knee amputation), and a good prosthetist. I truly wish you well, my heart breaks for you. Your next chapter of this journey will have its crazy ups and downs as well. Read up and become well informed.
 
Doing the 1 yr option I would slit my wrists, I cannot go through that again. So on Jun 20th I will have surgery to have an above the knee amputation. It's actually a huge relief and I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Please, please reconsider this decision.
Dr Maale, in Plano, Texas, has a great track record of treating difficult joint infections. Before committing to amputation, please consult him.

I have a son who had to have an above-knee amputation when he was aged 28.
His recovery was long and painful. Although he now walks on his prosthesis without even needing a cane, he frequently gets bruises, sores and haematomas on his stump. These result in him having to use crutches for long periods.
Because he has been using crutches for so long, his shoulder joints are starting to wear out and before much longer he will have to use a wheelchair.
 

BoneSmart #1 Best Blog

Staff online

  • Pumpkin
    Staff member since March 26, 2015

Forum statistics

Threads
63,956
Messages
1,577,390
BoneSmarties
38,716
Latest member
Kimmy63
Recent bookmarks
0
Back
Top Bottom