Is it in the bone or the muscle?

[kangaroo]

Hi Folks,
My husband is of the opinion that there are no nerves in bone, and so when you break a bone (or have it sliced off) the pain is actually in the muscle and ligaments etc and from the damage caused there ....not from the actual trauma to the bone. Is he right?....I can't believe it, why else would our hips hurt if they weren't bone on bone or whatever, or from the OA taking over...or in a surgical sense, because we've sliced through the bone. (of course there is muscle trauma etc which causes pain post surgery) . I guess my question is....Is the pain post surgery from the trauma to the bone or the trauma to the soft tissues surrounding them? I know many of you have experienced a relief from pain post surgery just because the diseased joint is gone, but I guess I'm not talking about that ...its the surgical pain I'm curious about?

Rachel

 

[Peta]

I'm going to leave this for Jo to answer - but from my own personal experience I can assure you that having two bones rubbing together with no cartilage in between is excruciatingly painful and feels like it has nothing to do with my muscle and ligaments! :(

Peta

 

[Jamie]

Jo will have to say for sure. But if he was correct, then bone cancer would not be the horrific pain that it is. I do know that bones are living organisims with rich supplies of blood. It's where the red blood cells originate in your body. I can't believe there are not some nerves associated with them.

 

[Jamie]

Okay.....show hubbie this web site about bones and he will learn they DO have nerves.

broken link removed: https://www.leeds.ac.uk/chb/lectures/anatomy3.html

 

[Josephine]

Well, he's right and he's wrong but he's more wrong than he's right!.

The inner structures of the bone, which is to say the compact and the cancellous bone and the medullary cavity, carry limited nerves. Compact bone has microscopic channels within which run nutrient blood vessels and nerves.

However .... the periosteum has nerves aplenty!

The periosteum is a membrane in several layers which coveres the outside of the bone. The inner layers of periosteum create new bone cells. The outer layer of periosteum remodels the bone by consuming old or damamged bone cells. Bone grows from within outwards through these layers of periosteum. It is the only tissue in the body that can completely regenerate itself in about 6-8 months and theoretically, leave no scar tissue after a simple fracture! But I digress!

Every particle of the periosteum is rich in blood and lymphatic vessels and in nerve endings so when fractures (or surgery) occur, the pain is carried to the brain.

 

[Judles]

OUCH! OUCH! OUCH! Just reading all THAT gave me the chills!
Bone on Bone,,,,no more cartiledge to pad & protect,,Wait til HE experiences this kind of pain, Rachel! I bet he'll be singing a different kind of tune altogether!
Another example why WOMEN bare children!

 

[Josephine]

Or 'bear' children, Judles?

 

[UTdave]

. I guess my question is....Is the pain post surgery from the trauma to the bone or the trauma to the soft tissues surrounding them? I know many of you have experienced a relief from pain post surgery just because the diseased joint is gone, but I guess I'm not talking about that ...its the surgical pain I'm curious about?

Rachel

After surgery:

Very minor pain from the bone. Pain seems mostly from the soft tissue injury which includes incision AND disruption of surrounding muscles to get the hip dislocated. I stress the latter because there can be a good deal of pain and swelling away from your incision as a result of this. Obviously, the implants hurt much less as most are able to put weight on them the day of surgery. My experience was that putting weight on the implants didn't hurt really at all, but trying to fire the muscles did.

 

[Jamie]

After surgery:

Very minor pain from the bone. Pain seems mostly from the soft tissue injury which includes incision AND disruption of surrounding muscles to get the hip dislocated. I stress the latter because there can be a good deal of pain and swelling away from your incision as a result of this. Obviously, the implants hurt much less as most are able to put weight on them the day of surgery. My experience was that putting weight on the implants didn't hurt really at all, but trying to fire the muscles did.

Boy, I don't know, Dave....I would think you might get some serious pain from the insertion of the rod down into the bone.....eeeek!!!

 

[Judles]

YIKES Dave & Jamie!!!!!! Such Graphic descriptions!!!! (Ugh!)

 

[Judles]

Jo!!! Those "bear children" can REALLY be tough! ;)

 

[kangaroo]

Thanks folks,
I guess ultimately it doesn't matter the source of the pain....its whether the pain killers dull it!
Its funny how I can cope with the concept of slicing skin and muscle etc, but the image of cutting through the femur is... well its somewhat scary. If i was having soft tissue surgery it wouldn't worry me so much, but chopping off a joint...man, that sounds scary.

 

[Judles]

It SURE does, Rachel! The imagery is just too graphic!!!

 

[JudyS]

Rachel I felt the same way, but as it got to surgery day, I no longer cared.
Judy

 

[Peta]

I was exactly the same Rachel - I think we all were! I read as much as I could - even watched a couple of videos where they used animation to show step by step how it was done - but there was NO WAY I could watch footage of an actual hip replacement. And I still can't to this day! My OS (after the event) likened it to "highly skilled carpentry"!!

Stop thinking about it - the results are well worth whatever they did while I was out to it!

Peta

 

[Judles]

Exactly, Peta!
Rachel,,,,,leave the medical stuff to the OS!!!!!You just let HIM do his surgery! My heavens, girl! There are enough things to concern yourself with,,,,,like recuperating!

 

[JudyS]

I announced right before surgery when my surgeon, the or nurse and the anesthesiologist were in my room that I wanted to arrive fully awake so I could check out all the tools
Judy

 

[Peta]

I wanted to arrive fully awake so I could check out all the tools
Judy

OMG Judy...............and did you see them all???? It was enough for me when I saw one of the nurses in her full body suit and head shield (like you see in the movies after a radiation leak somewhere..........) !!!!!!

 

[JudyS]

Peta
I don't remember them dressed like that. I did get to see all the test replacement pieces, I remember picking out purple for me!! Then the anesthesiologist said he was giving me something to relax me, they had me sit up. I felt nothing different, then I felt him putting in the epidural, then one of the nurses realized the IV line was kinked, then I was out!!
Then the next thing I remember is my handsome surgeon telling me my bones were very weak!!
Judy

 

[Peta]

So do they have test pieces that they try in first?? I didn't know that! Makes sense I suppose when I think about it........
And what is it about orthopaedic surgeons - mine is REALLY good looking as well! Would make me go weak at the knees if I wasn't already weak in the hips...............

Peta