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[MUA] How can I break scar tissue without surgery<<

Discussion in 'Knee Replacement Recovery Area' started by MyTest, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. MyTest

    MyTest member
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    Hello. My 1st surgery was a partial knee replacement in 2015 that came loose. Apparently my knee was too bad to have gotten a partial according to the 2nd doctor who did my full knee replacement in June 2017.

    So I have been going to PT and I noticed around week 4/5 a maneuver was done on my knee that cause my knee to stick out. I didn't think anything of it because I know sometimes PT can be aggressive. So I said I will give it a couple of days to calm down but the knee continued to stick out. Here I am in week 9 and now I'm dealing with massive scar tissue that I haven't been able to break and its painful for me to walk. The doctor is already talking about manipulation. I cannot do a 3rd surgery!!!

    If anyone has any idea of how to break down scar tissue, please tell me whether its supplements, how I need to fall so it will break, etc. If I don't get through this it won't be good for me because plan B is to meet my maker. Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
     
  2. Pumpkln

    Pumpkln FORUM ADVISOR Forum Advisor

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    MyTest,
    Sorry to hear you were injured by a PT. Aggressive PT is not OK, your knee has recently gone through a major surgery with injured soft tissue that takes a year or more to heal, though most start feeling a lot better around 3-4 months.
    You will need more than a couple of days for your knee to settle down, you will need a week or more to let your knee heal.
    Suggest you stop all therapy, and concentrate on Resting, Icing, Elevating, and Medicating on schedule as prescribed. The walking you do around you house is all the exercise you need right now.

    I am going to tag our Forum Nurse @Josephine for you.

    What your OS is suggesting is Manipulation Under Anesthesia (MUA). We usually suggest that members wait until 12 weeks before having a MUA.
    MUA (Manipulation under Anaesthetic) and Adhesions
    MUA for Stiffness Following TKR
    MUA: the ineffectiveness of early MUA (JBJS)

    Please post your exact surgery date, the exact date will help us advise you. A moderator will add it to your signature for you, Thanks!

    Here's your copy of the recovery guidelines, they are short and will not take long to read.

    Knee Recovery: The Guidelines
    1. Don’t worry: Your body will heal all by itself. Relax, let it, don't try and hurry it, don’t worry about any symptoms now, they are almost certainly temporary
    2. Control discomfort:
    rest
    elevate
    ice
    take your pain meds by prescription schedule (not when pain starts!)
    don't overwork.
    3. Do what you want to do BUT
    a. If it hurts, don't do it and don't allow anyone - especially a physical therapist - to do it to you
    b. If your leg swells more or gets stiffer in the 24 hours after doing it, don't do it again.
    4. PT or exercise can be useful BUT take note of these
    5. At week 4 and after you should follow this

    The Recovery articles:
    The importance of managing pain after a TKR and the pain chart
    Swollen and stiff knee: what causes it?
    Energy drain for TKRs
    Elevation is the key
    Ice to control pain and swelling
    Heel slides and how to do them properly
    Chart representation of TKR recovery
    Healing: how long does it take?

    Post op blues is a reality - be prepared for it
    Sleep deprivation is pretty much inevitable - but what causes it?

    There are also some cautionary articles here
    Myth busting: no pain, no gain
    Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
    Myth busting: on getting addicted to pain meds


    We try to keep the forum a positive and safe place for our members to talk about their questions or concerns and to report successes with their joint replacement surgery. While members may create as many threads as they like in a majority of BoneSmart's forums, we ask that each member have only one recovery thread. This policy makes it easier to go back and review history before providing advice.
     
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  3. becticu

    becticu graduate

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    Oh no @MyTest! You are young it's too early to meet your maker! Welcome to Bone Smart. You will find a lot of support and encouragement here. Someone will be posting reading for you. When were your surgery dates? I had a manipulation on Aug 9 and did well. That's a really personal decision for everyone. A lot depends on surgery dates, back to work dates, etc. don't be discouraged. We are all going through this together on this site. :welome:
     
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    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  4. Jamie

    Jamie ADMINISTRATOR Administrator

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    I'm confused by what you mean when you say your knee "sticks out." Do you mean it has swelled? Can you please post a photo?

    Therapy is never supposed to be aggressive nor should it hurt beyond mild discomfort. If that's been going on, you need to have a frank talk with your therapist and tell him or her that you want it to stop. Only gentle therapy from now on. Your poor knee is no doubt reeling from all the excessive pushing and "manuevers" it's been through. It's still healing and you need to treat it gently for the next several weeks with lots of rest, ice, elevation and even some pain medication if you are hurting.

    No need to implement your "Plan B." :heehee: Even if you needed a manipulation, it is not surgery. But I doubt that will be necessary. In fact, it is likely that you don't have scar tissue at all causing your problems....but instead it is swelling from the over activity.

    Please read all the links that were left for you in the above post, try to get us a photo of your knee and let's go from there.
     
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  5. Pumpkln

    Pumpkln FORUM ADVISOR Forum Advisor

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    MyTest,
    Thanks for the dates!
    It takes a long time to heal after an injury. I tore 2 ligaments at around 5 weeks, it was over a year before the ligaments were fully healed.
    Here is how to post a photo, Uploading a Picture in a Post .
     
  6. MyTest

    MyTest member
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    My surgery date was June 27, 2017. July 20th is when the PT did a maneuver that caused my knee to stick out. When I went to the post op appt on 8/2 that's when the Dr said if its not corrected in 4 wk he will manipulate and he told me go to PT 3 x a week. That's when I also switched PT and the new guy is 'great'. Just as an FYI, I ice/elevate regularly but the inside of my knee feels like hard rubber and now I have some pain when I walk. I was also told to do my bends 5 x a day to work out that scar tissue.
     
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  7. MyTest

    MyTest member
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    Thanks Pumpkin.

    All my pics were too big so I was trying to figure out how to post.
     
  8. bashbago

    bashbago junior member

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    Please note that others have said that MUA does not require surgery. MUA is manipulation under anesthesia. So they move your knee cap and knee and you wake up to it being over. You will still hurt afterwards, but ask Shelly about that.
     
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  9. JJ65

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    @MyTest I would have let the PT know about causing you pain. That is not good. I am so glad that my PT and the PTA are gentle and don't hurt people.
     
  10. MyTest

    MyTest member
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    Picture.

    MyTest.jpg
     
  11. JJ65

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    @MyTest ouch !!! It looks like it would be uncomfortable to walk on and looks like it would hurt. I hope you get better fast. Have you asked PT about breaking scar tissue?
     
  12. Josephine

    Josephine FORUM ADMIN, DIRECTOR Administrator

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    No it shouldn't be.
    I see your image but still cannot figure out what you mean by "it sticks out". Where does it stick out?
    You're 9 weeks out, "Scar" tissue - as in adhesion - doesn't develop that early and in any case, are extremely rare. So I would suggest that you don't have 'scar tissue' but simply swelling.

    I'd really like to offer you some structured advice but in order to do that, I also need to ask you some questions. Are you willing for me to do that?
     
  13. MyTest

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    Thank you Josephine. It bulges out in the front more after he did the maneuver and it hasn't returned to its original state, if that helps.

    Yes, I am open to questions.
     
  14. Josephine

    Josephine FORUM ADMIN, DIRECTOR Administrator

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    I see - well that's just swelling.

    I'd really like to offer you some structured advice but in order to do that, I also need to ask you some questions. Are you willing for me to do that?
     
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  15. MyTest

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    Josephine, I don't mind answering questions.

    Also, besides the buldging it feels rubbery inside and semi-hard. That's why I think it's scar tissue. The PT said it takes longer for a revision to give/heal. He said give it some time and we will be able to tell.
     
  16. Celle

    Celle FORUM ADVISOR Forum Advisor

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    I also don't think you have "scar tissue". I think that over-zealous, aggressive PT has caused your soft tissues to remain angry and swollen. They need time and gentle treatment, with lots of elevation and icing, so they can settle down. It's not scar tissue that is making your knee stiff. It's internal and external swelling.

    It's not exercising that gets you your ROM - it's time. Time to recover, time for swelling and pain to settle, and time to heal. Your ROM is there right from the start, just waiting for all that to happen, so it can show itself.

    There's no need to rush to get ROM (Range of Motion) because it can continue to improve for a year, or even much longer, after a knee replacement. There isn't any deadline you have to meet:
    Myth busting: the "window of opportunity" in TKR
     
  17. Josephine

    Josephine FORUM ADMIN, DIRECTOR Administrator

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    That's actually an exact description of swelling!
     
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  18. MyTest

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    WOW, thanks Everyone!!
    Just so happens my PT person is out of town and I don't go back until Wed. Think I will just elevate and ice until then to calm the tissue.
     
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  19. Celle

    Celle FORUM ADVISOR Forum Advisor

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    That's a good start, but it will probably take longer than that for the swelling to start to go down. Sometimes it takes as long as 3 weeks before you see any improvement.
     
  20. MyTest

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    Celle,
    that's what I am afraid of but trying to get the Dr and PT to understand is the real issue. I plan to talk to the PT next week and specifically tell them what happened so we can adjust the game plan. They are trying to force it to break and the pain is totally ridiculous for anyone to go through. Thanks again!!
     

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